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FIAT2LUX
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 Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:08 pm |
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:27 pm
Posts: 219
Location: North Carolina, US
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clarknight wrote: Trying to get people to realize that even a good honest chiropractor can cause injury by a mistake and its not safe to get routine, continual treatments; it ups the percentage chance for injury. My experience is not rare. There are more and more dishonest chiropractors out there. One reason is; if a chiropractor does the job right, often one treatment only; then sends the perosn to a good physical therapist, the patient is healed, does not need more treatment. This results in the chirop. not making much money. If the chirop. does half way treatments or purposely mis-alignes the patient; then he gets money for more treatments. Even one honest treatment can result in accident, injury.
I was also injured 5 times in the past by 4 other chiropractors; loud endless ear ringing and black spot in center of visual field, unbalanced hips, lower back. Always caused by those 'on purpose or by accident one sided, unbalanced neck, back movements'. Because people and chirops. kept telling me "its ok, to keep coming back or just find a new chirop", I did that; then that chirop. caused the worst injury and I ended up in the hospital. This is one thing I will not be quite about. I usually just back off and let people go their own way, but when I know from experieince and others experiences that something can and is hurting people, I must post it.
You can check medical an dother insurance agency's; they have so many chiropractic injury complaints backed up by hospital visits to verify. I meet many people in the market, my neighborhood, at work ... that tell me they have been dizzy, feeling worse after a chiropractic treatment. It's all over the Internet. There's too much evidence.
The very first time a chirop goofed my neck was in So San Francisco, but he told me to come right in and he fixed it. He was honest and admitted the mistake. I wish back then I had the common sense to find another route. I was lucky then. My Mom advised me not to go to chiropractors in the past. Should have listened to her but I let myself be scared into letting the chirop. talk me into treatment.
Mary Alright, first, is this like you (Clark) and your wife commenting on here using the same account? It gets really confusing. Second, all of what you told me about your bad chiropractic experiences is purely anecdotal. Likewise, Nancy's and mine good experiences are purely anecdotal. But do you have any truly scientific studies that you can point me to regarding the "badness" of chiropractic? If you can sufficiently prove it, then I might reconsider chiropractic, but so far it's been anecdotal experiences on both sides of the coin, and mine has been on the positive side.
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FIAT LUX! Translation = "Let there be light!"
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clarknight
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:25 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:03 am
Posts: 1161
Location: Massachusetts, So. San Francisco
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Mary Oliver is me; Clark Night; Clark is my writer's pen name. Sorry, been training people on phone, e-mail lately and use my birth name when do that so got kinda stuck in my brain.
As for the chiropractic post; its true. That's all I wll say. I will not argue in any way on this wonderful Forum.
_________________ Mary I. Oliver - 38 years practice, teach Natural Eyesight Improvement. Free on-line Better Eyesight Magazine with Translator, Speaker; http://www.cleareyesight.info/naturalvisionimprovementoriginalandmodernbatesmethod/http://www.cleareyesight.info
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susan
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:13 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:55 am
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I spent many years going to what I would call "head cranking chiros". Then moved on to "upper cervical only" chiros (a much gentler style). And just last December, at the encouragement of friend, began working with an Osteopath who does even more gentle spinal manipulation... no cracking, no head cranking, just very gentle pressure and only to the point at which she can "feel" the vertebrae she's working on start to free up and move as it should. I'd say I've had my best results with the Osteopath. I typically went to the first style chiro 2-3x/week... the second style chiro at least 1x/week.... with the osteopath, I only go once every 3-6 weeks.
I just used the word "chiro" to include all people who work on the spine.
Ultimately, we all have to choose what works best for us as individuals. But, I am aware that a "mistake" can have serious consequences.
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susan
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:32 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:55 am
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Back to the subject of NVI.... I noticed something else interesting last night. I occasionally practice EFT tapping (emotional freedom technique). I'm guessing since you folks are open to alternative methods of vision improvement, you may also have heard of EFT (if not, I'd encourage you to research it online -- another nice form of relaxation). When I read David's thoughts on the causes of eye strain.... "...armoring (tensing muscles to protect yourself emotionally) due to fear of the environment, fear of seeing too much, fear of being seen..." I decided to alternate palming with some EFT tapping. When I do EFT, I tend to know when a major issue is beginning to be released because I start yawning. The bigger the yawn, the bigger the issue seems to be. If I don't get a yawn out of myself after a few rounds of tapping, I move on to a different subject, different statement. So, last night, I'm alternating between palming and EFT... and I'm tapping on statements based on David's above quotes. Statements like ".....I release and let go of the fear of being seen.... I release and let go of the fear of seeing too much..... I release and let go of the need to armor myself...." I also did several rounds of tapping with statements like ".....my eyes are relaxed, my vision is sharp....." and ".....I release and let go of the tension in my eyes / neck / shoulders...." These statements while tapping resulted in HUGE yawns.  Great big, gigantic, eye watering yawns. Which, as has been mentioned, is good for the eyes for extra moisture. I'm also hopeful that the tapping will release some of the tension and move me further forward in this journey.
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FIAT2LUX
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:48 pm |
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:27 pm
Posts: 219
Location: North Carolina, US
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Clark,
Okay, we'll at least I know I'm talking to the same person. And I guess then since you can't show me acceptable evidence to prove your point, nor can I and neither of us are interested in arguing over it out of interest for all three parties (you, I, and everyone else), we will stick to our views and not bring it up again in the near future.
Susan,
Nancy actually does a good deal of EFT and advocates for it. I think that will definitely be helpful for you. I personally (although encouraged by Nancy to look into it) have yet to actually delve into EFT. It looks promising, but I just haven't made time to really look at it yet (laziness).
_________________
FIAT LUX! Translation = "Let there be light!"
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clarknight
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:33 am |
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Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:03 am
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Location: Massachusetts, So. San Francisco
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To Susan; thanks for clarifying. A vision teacher recently told me similiar things. Glad to know your taking a safe route.
ALright!; the EFT with Davids phrases sounds great! I love EFT. I forgot about it, been so darn busy. Can use it on my plane ride! Easier than wearing relaxation tapes or worring if my memorized relaxation method will work if the neck acts up.
_________________ Mary I. Oliver - 38 years practice, teach Natural Eyesight Improvement. Free on-line Better Eyesight Magazine with Translator, Speaker; http://www.cleareyesight.info/naturalvisionimprovementoriginalandmodernbatesmethod/http://www.cleareyesight.info
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susan
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:41 pm |
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I've read some posts that talk about how many myopes stare and space off / zone out. I'm guilty of this. What's interesting to me is that at the end of the work day, when I take my glasses off for the evening, not only do my eyes / neck / shoulders relax but, I tend not to stare and space off.... even though everything is blurry. I would think that I'd be MORE likely to space off when my vision is blurry. Does anyone know why this happens.... why do I seem to be "more present" when I can "see less"....  Also, why is it that the inward turn of my left eye is less noticeable with my glasses off? One more thing I noticed today... talking with a coworker who was very animated (meaning: he moved his head around a lot), I noticed I got nauseous when I tried to track him while wearing my glasses. But, when I looked up him from a seated position, looking over the top of my glasses, his movements didn't make me nauseous... even though he was blurry. Is this caused by the prism in my left lens (if so, I'll be really glad to get the new glasses that don't have the prism)?
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Nancy
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:29 pm |
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Location: Fishkill, NY (USA)
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Susan: Quote: Does anyone know why this happens.... why do I seem to be "more present" when I can "see less".... Also, why is it that the inward turn of my left eye is less noticeable with my glasses off? My first hit is that you are more relaxed with your glasses off. A second point is that "seeing" is not just clarity, which I didn't know when I wore a strong prescription all the time. It's also color and depth. The clarity will improve as you continue this work -- if you widen your definition of "seeing" you'll realize you already see a lot without your glasses. My guess about the eye turn is that it is also due to the greater relaxation without your glasses. _________________ Nancy 2012: 20/45 on average, no glasses except for night driving 2001: 2/200, -10 hard contacts with -1.75 cylinder Vision & dreams blog: http://dreamersight.wordpress.com/Vision & dreams website: http://dreamersight.com/
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arocarty
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:09 am |
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Just to add another tidbit to Nancy's response - glasses will 'lock' in whatever tension and strain you are exerting, and compensate for a lack of movement/mobility of the eyes and lack of real foveal vision. When you remove them, the eyes at least have a chance to move freely in order to see naturally. Foveal vision works hand in hand with movement, one cannot exist without the other. The eyes are most relaxed when they are moving, on both the unconscious level, as when we are fixating on an object or spot, and the conscious level, when we keep our point of attention changing.
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susan
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:37 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:55 am
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Thanks for the input. Finally, Friday is here and I can take the glasses off for a couple of days (for the majority of the time).  While walking into work this morning, I turned to go into my office and looked (while wearing my glasses, because I'd just driven to work) at a sign on the wall about 30-35 feet away, noticed that the letter were really blurry, and thought, "crap, my eyes are getting worse." I spent the last 30 minutes of the day palming three times for about five minutes each. Without my glasses, I noticed things on my desk were slightly sharper. Then I put my glasses on to leave the building and drive home. Walking out of my office, I turned to look at the same sign that was blurry this morning and, this time (glasses on) it was TACK sharp.  I was so stunned that I had to look at it three times. Then I smiled and left work. I have a question about Snellen charts but, I'm going to post it in a new thread so that others will more easily find it.
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arocarty
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:53 am |
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arocarty wrote: Foveal vision works hand in hand with movement, one cannot exist without the other. A personal correction here - motion CAN exist without normal central fixation. If it didn't exist, on some level, vision would totally fade out quickly. Susan - some people do much better when they can palm for short intervals, many times throughout the day. That's great that you are already noticing a benefit from it. You can use whatever is around your desk, or in the vicinity to practice looking at - the things with which we are most familiar, even better. Andrew
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susan
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:20 pm |
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Thanks for your input Andrew. Over the past week, I got a small taste of the "resistance" to the Bates Method. Well, I didn't really mention the Bates Method, I could tell by the responses that it wouldn't be accepted at all. I merely brought up the fact, to a 50-something coworker who wears bi-focals and my 80-something osteopath who wears tri-focals, that I was getting a new pair of glasses made at the same script that I have right now but without the prism AND that I intend to have a second pair of "computer" (mid-vision) glasses made. I didn't tell them that I was working on the Bates Method of vision improvement and that I was already noticing positive changes... and I didn't tell them that I take my glasses off during evenings and weekends... and I didn't tell them that once I get the computer/mid-vision glasses, I'll mainly wear those when needed - except for driving. The immediate response from the coworker was a very condescending, "You'll hate changing glasses all the time, bi-focals are just easier." And the reaction from the osteopath was nearly the same, except she thought that I should go to tri-focals....! Good grief, I'm only 41 years old, I'm certainly not ready for tri-focals....! So, as I'm sure most Bates' advocates do, I intend to keep my mouth shut from this point forward (except for here on the boards) and go about my own way of "seeing" if this will work for me. If it doesn't, I can always go into bi-focals later.
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FIAT2LUX
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:58 am |
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:27 pm
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Location: North Carolina, US
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Yeah, it definitely generates heat. If someone seems genuinely curious, feel free telling them about it, but most of the time just keeping your mouth shut does seem like the way to go. Especially with your eye doctor until you have big progress, then you CAN tell, but he/she may think that it is really something else, not willing to admit what you know happened because it is so contrary to what they've been taught.
_________________
FIAT LUX! Translation = "Let there be light!"
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sean
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:42 am |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:40 am
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Location: Ireland
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Susan I was interested in your post about EFT (I don't know what that is, by the way) where you say that thinking about certain concepts makes you yawn deeply. I mentioned a similar thing in a post on this thread a few months ago: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2231To my knowledge nobody else has mentioned this, which I find strange as it hapens to me all the time.
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susan
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:01 pm |
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Hi Sean, EFT stands for "Emotional Freedom Technique". A quick Google search will give you more info than you could ever want to know. May I ask, how long have you been working the Bates' Method and what kind of results have you had...? My results in the short two weeks that I began working Bates' Method are: * MUCH more comfortable with "blur" (David's blog talks about 'embracing the hard step - blurry vision') * increased relaxation in eye muscles (as well as head/neck/shoulders), and the relaxation isn't just while palming, it actually lasts for a good long while * increased AWARENESS of when I'm getting tense, at which point, if I can't palm, I think to myself, "....soft eyes...." and the tension immediately eases * increased sharpness in my distance vision while wearing my now 3 year old Rx glasses (I've avoided the need to increase the Rx further) * dramatically reduced inward eye turn in my left eye (the eye doc is removing the prism from my new pair of glasses and said I could wear contact lenses if I wanted too -- I'm sticking with the glasses) * and best of all, a dramatically improved mood If this was the best it got, I'd be happy. But, I'm also looking forward to seeing if the relaxation / palming doesn't decrease my Rx over time.
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