I'm new here, but I began to focus on the Bates' Method since the last September. I have astigmatism in both my eyes, each about -2.00D and no myopia.
I try to exercise the thumb exercise and Tibet wheels from last Octomber, just as Leo Angart said, and I also tried the method here "http://www.cleareyesight.info/id40.html" for some times.
I did the exercise every day. But now four months has past, I didn't get much progress, at least from my subjective sense and from the test of visual chart(I couldn't see 0.8 clearly four months ago,now I couldn't yet).
I found the muscle strain when I did the exercise, even though I found the muscle get some progress comparing with it four months ago, I really didn't know what I did is wrong and any better methods or some improvement I should do? Could you help me?
(01-19-2016, 07:00 AM)tianjue1989 Wrote: I'm new here, but I began to focus on the Bates' Method since the last September. I have astigmatism in both my eyes, each about -2.00D and no myopia.
I try to exercise the thumb exercise and Tibet wheels from last Octomber, just as Leo Angart said, and I also tried the method here "http://www.cleareyesight.info/id40.html" for some times.
I did the exercise every day. But now four months has past, I didn't get much progress, at least from my subjective sense and from the test of visual chart(I couldn't see 0.8 clearly four months ago,now I couldn't yet).
I found the muscle strain when I did the exercise, even though I found the muscle get some progress comparing with it four months ago, I really didn't know what I did is wrong and any better methods or some improvement I should do? Could you help me?
(01-19-2016, 07:00 AM)tianjue1989 Wrote: I'm new here, but I began to focus on the Bates' Method since the last September. I have astigmatism in both my eyes, each about -2.00D and no myopia.
I try to exercise the thumb exercise and Tibet wheels from last Octomber, just as Leo Angart said, and I also tried the method here "http://www.cleareyesight.info/id40.html" for some times.
I did the exercise every day. But now four months has past, I didn't get much progress, at least from my subjective sense and from the test of visual chart(I couldn't see 0.8 clearly four months ago,now I couldn't yet).
I found the muscle strain when I did the exercise, even though I found the muscle get some progress comparing with it four months ago, I really didn't know what I did is wrong and any better methods or some improvement I should do? Could you help me?
Thank you for your reply. But I haven't wear glasses even before I began to exercise, since the last February maybe.
I got the astigmatism because I saw the cellphone on the bed four years ago, with my body tilted. But I didn't even saw the cellphone since then, and I didn't feel my body tilted in my usual life, but the astigmatism didn't get reduced.
The way I see it is that every muscle tension is created through your mind. Imagine to see perfectly clear and without astigmatism. I don't know if that is possible for you though but try it. Did I understand it right that the only thing you have is the astigmatism? How does this look for you? Because I mean -2 Diopters is quite a lot to if everything else really is clear. On what axes do you have the astigmatism?
Like I said relax and stay relaxed because that is what your muscle is: tensed
(01-20-2016, 07:59 AM)MartinKleiner Wrote: The way I see it is that every muscle tension is created through your mind. Imagine to see perfectly clear and without astigmatism. I don't know if that is possible for you though but try it. Did I understand it right that the only thing you have is the astigmatism? How does this look for you? Because I mean -2 Diopters is quite a lot to if everything else really is clear. On what axes do you have the astigmatism?
Like I said relax and stay relaxed because that is what your muscle is: tensed
Thank you, Martin. Yes, I nearly don't have any myopia. I have double (indeed it's much bigger than two) images horizontally, or it's called against-the-rule astigmatism.
I can easily identify the objects in the distance, but when I want to see everything clearly, I couldn't accomplish it even it is not far away. When it's at night, my eyesight become even worse, the small street light in my eyes looks like a big ellipsoid and make me crazy.
I'm sorry that I didn't know it clearly " Imagine to see perfectly clear and without astigmatism." You mean I have to give myself mental suggestion that I don't have astigmatism and I can see it clearly? When I have to do this, when I do eye exercise, or for each time maybe? And does it have any illustrations with the form of webpage, book, or video?
01-20-2016, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 01-20-2016, 10:47 AM by tianjue1989.)
(01-20-2016, 10:42 AM)tianjue1989 Wrote:
(01-20-2016, 07:59 AM)MartinKleiner Wrote: The way I see it is that every muscle tension is created through your mind. Imagine to see perfectly clear and without astigmatism. I don't know if that is possible for you though but try it. Did I understand it right that the only thing you have is the astigmatism? How does this look for you? Because I mean -2 Diopters is quite a lot to if everything else really is clear. On what axes do you have the astigmatism?
Like I said relax and stay relaxed because that is what your muscle is: tensed
Thank you, Martin. Yes, I nearly don't have any myopia. I have double (indeed it's much bigger than two) images horizontally, or it's called against-the-rule astigmatism.
I can easily identify the objects in the distance, but when I want to see everything clearly, I couldn't accomplish it even it is not far away. When it's at night, my eyesight become even worse, the small street light in my eyes looks like a big ellipsoid and make me crazy.
I'm sorry that I didn't know it clearly " Imagine to see perfectly clear and without astigmatism." You mean I have to give myself mental suggestion that I don't have astigmatism and I can see it clearly? When I have to do this, when I do eye exercise, or for each time maybe? And does it have any illustrations with the form of webpage, book, or video?
I'm sorry I send it twice and don't know how to delete it.
You decide yourself what is best but trying to merge the images or doing eye exercises doesn't necessarily work greatly. My own experience tells me that even though you have got a very rare form of astigmatism that is disturbing to stay calm and don't "try" to do something with your eyes.
Your mind controls your eyes so you could start to tell your mind that the image can easily normalise and that you have control (which is true). It is very rare though that you are not myopic but that is great
I have also got astigmatism but it is not much. The moment I see clearer the astigmatism gets weaker. Can you identify which of those two double images is "the right one" or in the right place where it has to be? Which is the illusion? Once you know that you should only focus on the right one and trying to imagine the image in that place better. Astigmatism is still a sort of myopia but it is only in a certain "angle" of the eyes muscles so relaxing your mind in general using the Bates techniques should be helpful.
Have a look at the dodging exercise and try it with an eye chart.
(01-20-2016, 01:54 PM)MartinKleiner Wrote: Thank you very much for sharing
You decide yourself what is best but trying to merge the images or doing eye exercises doesn't necessarily work greatly. My own experience tells me that even though you have got a very rare form of astigmatism that is disturbing to stay calm and don't "try" to do something with your eyes.
Your mind controls your eyes so you could start to tell your mind that the image can easily normalise and that you have control (which is true). It is very rare though that you are not myopic but that is great
I have also got astigmatism but it is not much. The moment I see clearer the astigmatism gets weaker. Can you identify which of those two double images is "the right one" or in the right place where it has to be? Which is the illusion? Once you know that you should only focus on the right one and trying to imagine the image in that place better. Astigmatism is still a sort of myopia but it is only in a certain "angle" of the eyes muscles so relaxing your mind in general using the Bates techniques should be helpful.
Have a look at the dodging exercise and try it with an eye chart.
Thanks a lot.
You mean I would only focus on the right image and my astigmatism will get weaker? Yes, I tried it when I see the big circle and scan it on the chart, not the eye chart to test the eyesight. If I focus on the right image and stand not so far from the chart, the double image will get weaker, but once I reduce the attention, it comes back so quickly. And the same effect comes out, when I use the computer. But I felt my eyes get tired much quicker than usual(i.e. when I used computer before), and soon later, the double image changed from horizontal to vertical direction.
I don't know whether my comprehension is right? But in daily life, I thought it is hard to do, how could I really apply this in daily life and really reduce the astigmatism?
The thing is that the tension that the astigmatism creates is habitual and for your brain it is the best way to see so you have to teach your brain that there is a more easy way to see.
The thing that I noticed is that no matter if you are myopic or have astigmatism or farsightedness it is always the fact that the eyes don't focus the light rays on the fovea centralis. That is the spot where clear vision is produced. Now imagine having astigmatism. What does that mean?
Basically one eye muscle around your eye is tensed (it can also be several muscles that are tensed). The important thing here is to understand that the imbalance that this creates changes the spot where the light rays fall in meaning they don't fall into the fovea centralis or not perfectly). Double images are basically because the light rays are spreading in the wrong way.
Once the imbalance is gone the light rays will fall perfectly onto the fovea and the double images and astigmatism is gone. You might not be myopic but in the angle of your astigmatism you kind of are. It may be clear but it is still an imbalance.
I am not a professional but I am about to get my vision back in the near future and I have to say that noticing central fixation is key. The first step is to let your attention direct your eyes. Forget your eyes completely and notice what is there. Ignore the wrong image completely and let your attention drift to the right one. It would be good to this with a geometric object first. Something easy and distinct. Best would be a letter on the snellen chart. Can you remember when you haven't had astigmatism? How effortless would the seeing be?
You don't hear with effort you don't focus on your ears but on the sound instead so try to focus on the image you see inside your mind and use it to "inform" yourself about your environment.
(01-21-2016, 01:30 AM)MartinKleiner Wrote: The thing is that the tension that the astigmatism creates is habitual and for your brain it is the best way to see so you have to teach your brain that there is a more easy way to see.
The thing that I noticed is that no matter if you are myopic or have astigmatism or farsightedness it is always the fact that the eyes don't focus the light rays on the fovea centralis. That is the spot where clear vision is produced. Now imagine having astigmatism. What does that mean?
Basically one eye muscle around your eye is tensed (it can also be several muscles that are tensed). The important thing here is to understand that the imbalance that this creates changes the spot where the light rays fall in meaning they don't fall into the fovea centralis or not perfectly). Double images are basically because the light rays are spreading in the wrong way.
Once the imbalance is gone the light rays will fall perfectly onto the fovea and the double images and astigmatism is gone. You might not be myopic but in the angle of your astigmatism you kind of are. It may be clear but it is still an imbalance.
I am not a professional but I am about to get my vision back in the near future and I have to say that noticing central fixation is key. The first step is to let your attention direct your eyes. Forget your eyes completely and notice what is there. Ignore the wrong image completely and let your attention drift to the right one. It would be good to this with a geometric object first. Something easy and distinct. Best would be a letter on the snellen chart. Can you remember when you haven't had astigmatism? How effortless would the seeing be?
You don't hear with effort you don't focus on your ears but on the sound instead so try to focus on the image you see inside your mind and use it to "inform" yourself about your environment.
I'm sorry for hiding some exercise experiences before, but now I have to say it out.
I uses the snellen chart to exercise in 2014.8, 2015.2, 2015.3 nearly one or two hours every day. And I stand four or five meters away, and keep myself relax, I can get clear image, or called "flash" after 30 to 180 seconds, and this can keep about 300 seconds or so. But at that time, even if I want to keep relax, I found my eyes much tense and keep weeping. Worse still, once I reduce the attention, I found the double image come back immediately, or even worse. I keep the exercise and counldn't get any progress. I thought it harmful and stop it.
In 2015.8 and 2015.9, I also try the similar function, but the object is changed to pencil, or the words on the box, but it's still useless.
I didn't know whether the function that concentrating on the right image is only useful to myopia or slight astigmatism. But it seems no use to me. While when I use the function of Leo Angart's, even though my progress is not considerable, but I did get some progress and the tense of muscle reduced about 50% comparing with it four months ago. But the eye sight is still blury during the day or the night.
That is very interesting and I would first of all say: "don't worry"
You just described what I am experiencing right now too and I would say it is a good sign to be able to keep the image you see/saw for almost five minutes.
A few months ago I have had a clear "flash" that lasted about two hours. The thing back then was that I lost it again but it was a perfect flash. Right now my flashes are similar to the time back then but not exactly the same.
There are a lot of components that play a role. If we tell our eyes to relax they probably won't but instead tense even more.
Don't at all focus on the eyes but on the picture you see. Only the picture you see. Now let's assume the image is clearer what do you do then?
You said you can/could keep it how did you do that by the way because I am struggling with that a bit.
The thing is that if you keep the image five minutes that means that in these five minutes your eyes are not tensed or at least less. If you can relax a bit why not fully there is no real difference. The thing is that you actually answered your question already
You said that once you lost the attention or reduced it the image started to blur again. I notice the exact same and if I am thinking back a few years to the time I saw clear I do know that I saw subconsciously without any sort of effort or intervention. That is also that you want and are going to get but you need to keep going.
I don't know how long you have astigmatism but I guess a few years already right? Now I am myopic for several years as well and guess what? It is a habit now. Your subconscious put your visual attention in a standby mode and that pattern is most used. Meaning the more you concentrate and focus on the image you see the more habitual it is going to become. I have no idea though how long it takes. I have found this a few days ago actually and it is hard to keep the image but what I know is that seeing clear changes your entire perception.
Once the habit is there you can also focus on the image with a lot more conscious attention and also feel the eyes while keeping the image. The keeping is here what we are talking about because that is what people with perfect eyes do all the time. If you think about it: you are always keeping the attention for all the senses up. You hear all the time (even in sleep) because it is important for survival and so are your eyes.
(01-21-2016, 04:44 AM)MartinKleiner Wrote: That is very interesting and I would first of all say: "don't worry"
You just described what I am experiencing right now too and I would say it is a good sign to be able to keep the image you see/saw for almost five minutes.
A few months ago I have had a clear "flash" that lasted about two hours. The thing back then was that I lost it again but it was a perfect flash. Right now my flashes are similar to the time back then but not exactly the same.
There are a lot of components that play a role. If we tell our eyes to relax they probably won't but instead tense even more.
Don't at all focus on the eyes but on the picture you see. Only the picture you see. Now let's assume the image is clearer what do you do then?
You said you can/could keep it how did you do that by the way because I am struggling with that a bit.
The thing is that if you keep the image five minutes that means that in these five minutes your eyes are not tensed or at least less. If you can relax a bit why not fully there is no real difference. The thing is that you actually answered your question already
You said that once you lost the attention or reduced it the image started to blur again. I notice the exact same and if I am thinking back a few years to the time I saw clear I do know that I saw subconsciously without any sort of effort or intervention. That is also that you want and are going to get but you need to keep going.
I don't know how long you have astigmatism but I guess a few years already right? Now I am myopic for several years as well and guess what? It is a habit now. Your subconscious put your visual attention in a standby mode and that pattern is most used. Meaning the more you concentrate and focus on the image you see the more habitual it is going to become. I have no idea though how long it takes. I have found this a few days ago actually and it is hard to keep the image but what I know is that seeing clear changes your entire perception.
Once the habit is there you can also focus on the image with a lot more conscious attention and also feel the eyes while keeping the image. The keeping is here what we are talking about because that is what people with perfect eyes do all the time. If you think about it: you are always keeping the attention for all the senses up. You hear all the time (even in sleep) because it is important for survival and so are your eyes.
Hello,
I am fairly new to the forums and I like this thread because my main issue is astigmatism. I am Myopic at -3 with an astigmatism that is -2.25 at the 180 axis. Exactly the same in each eye.
Unless I'm way off on my thinking, my eyes being identical like this tells me that I definitely have some tense muscles in my eye from strain. Probably from bad eye habits.
I do make sure to have better eye habits, but haven't had to much success with seeing any clearer. I've have not worn glasses since September 2015 and I think I had slight improvement after 2 weeks, but barely any improvement since.
I currently:
- palm
- long swing many times of the day
- eye chart (I have one in my office)
Unfortunately, because of my occupation, I am up close all the time. I do not get to see past 9 feet most of the time. it may be only 90 minutes of the day that I get to look beyond 9 feet.
I try to convince myself that I can already see clearly, but it is hard for myself to believe this because it has been over 23 years since I have seen clearly. (I've had glasses/contacts since 1992)
Please keep the astigmatism advice flowing, because I really have the biggest issue with that!
The thing is that things like palming are good to understand how perfect vision feels but what you basically need to change is your way of perception. How do you percep the things you see and do you think that looking in this way at certain objects could produce clear images?
You have not seen clear for a long time but still try to imagine how you would see. How do you hear? It is basically the same thing. The more you listen the better your mind responds. A lot of old people still are able to hear very well but their mind doesn't want to. You have to relearn this a way of not thinking anything and still sliding through the visual field.
