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You are doing it wrong
10-03-2010, 06:41 AM
Post: #1
You are doing it wrong
Hello,

I read about William H. Bates and his methods 3 years ago, first it seemed incredbile, but like anyone I wa skeptic about these improvements, and like anyone else I asked myself : Why are optometrists lying? Well, now i think that in a way they are not, they just don't undestand how to apply what he said, you'll undestand this after reading this post.

First, let me tell you that I started doing some vision exercises the first time I read about them in a book, those exercises made me use my extraocular eye muscles more than usual, and, believe it or not, I experienced minor improvements after a couple of day, I was thrilled but because of various unrelated issues I stopped doing them, but now(yesterday) I've started doing them again.
One thing I wanted to know was how these exercises improve vision and why some seeem to have improvements and some don't. The best explanation, that I agree based on my observations, I found here :http://web.archive.org/web/2008021607461...rshak.html

Plsease read it, I think it's one of the best material on the subject!

Now, let me explain for those who don't have the time to read that article now(though when you have time you should read it).
All the methods that Bates devised are good, but only in certain circumstances, only if your eyes are not permanently malformed.
If you used glassses for a cetain period of time, your eyes will adapt, the muscle will not be strained, they will be relaxed, the glasses will do what the muscles should do, but then why does your vision remain the same without tension in the muscles? because the muscles already malformed your eyes, so now, no matter what you do to relax, you cannot have permanent, effortless, perfect, clear vision.
Only if you use your muscles to bring your eye to spherical form you will have perfect vision.
How do you do that? Eye exercises of course, extraocular muscle eye exercises to be precise.

Just read that link, everything should be clear after that. The methods that Bates promoted where for his time, not now, most of us already have permanent malformed eyes, we have to do thing different.

To summarise:
You cannot have perfect vision, if your eyes are permanently malformed independent of the muscles, without work.
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10-03-2010, 10:35 AM
Post: #2
Re: You are doing it wrong
Lolipop Wrote:Hello,

I read about William H. Bates and his methods 3 years ago, first it seemed incredbile, but like anyone I wa skeptic about these improvements, and like anyone else I asked myself : Why are optometrists lying? Well, now i think that in a way they are not, they just don't undestand how to apply what he said, you'll undestand this after reading this post.

First, let me tell you that I started doing some vision exercises the first time I read about them in a book, those exercises made me use my extraocular eye muscles more than usual, and, believe it or not, I experienced minor improvements after a couple of day, I was thrilled but because of various unrelated issues I stopped doing them, but now(yesterday) I've started doing them again.
One thing I wanted to know was how these exercises improve vision and why some seeem to have improvements and some don't. The best explanation, that I agree based on my observations, I found here :http://web.archive.org/web/2008021607461...rshak.html

Plsease read it, I think it's one of the best material on the subject!

Now, let me explain for those who don't have the time to read that article now(though when you have time you should read it).
All the methods that Bates devised are good, but only in certain circumstances, only if your eyes are not permanently malformed.
If you used glassses for a cetain period of time, your eyes will adapt, the muscle will not be strained, they will be relaxed, the glasses will do what the muscles should do, but then why does your vision remain the same without tension in the muscles? because the muscles already malformed your eyes, so now, no matter what you do to relax, you cannot have permanent, effortless, perfect, clear vision.
Only if you use your muscles to bring your eye to spherical form you will have perfect vision.
How do you do that? Eye exercises of course, extraocular muscle eye exercises to be precise.

Just read that link, everything should be clear after that. The methods that Bates promoted where for his time, not now, most of us already have permanent malformed eyes, we have to do thing different.

To summarise:
You cannot have perfect vision, if your eyes are permanently malformed independent of the muscles, without work.

I don't understand you. Do you mean that the eyeball is not elastic ? No, the most natural form must of course be spherical. Can you explain why the eye should adapt to something else than spherical form. I don't get this. The eyes are dynamic, they are not made of stone. When the eyes are moving without strain they most probably adapt to a spherical form, because there is a pressure in the eye that forms the dynamic and elastic eye to a spherical form. But of course I could be wrong, but it is not logically likely at all that I am wrong, then let me know why I should be wrong if you still think that I am wrong. Smile
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10-04-2010, 05:35 AM
Post: #3
 
Yes the eye is elastic and yes the eye should be naturally spherical, only when you converge or diverge it should change, but it should happen only then! it should not remain eloganted(myopia) or shortened(hypermetropia).

I am saying that the methods Bates used to cure people in his time are not that good now, why? in most cases because of your glasses,they did the muscles's job, you used them for a period and your extraocular muscles are not strained! they are relieved, but you're vision is not good no matter how much you relax those muscles, why? because the eye is malformed, you don't have to relax those muscles, quite the contrary, you have to use them to make your eyes stay spherical, to be in the natural state they should be, to reverse the process that you started because of mental strain.
Only when you will regain your spherical eye form(when you don't use your eyes to converge or diverge) you will have effortless clear vision.


Undestand now?

P.s. the link that I wrote in the first post explains all you need to know, it's detailed,
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10-04-2010, 11:40 AM
Post: #4
Re:
Lolipop Wrote:Yes the eye is elastic and yes the eye should be naturally spherical, only when you converge or diverge it should change, but it should happen only then! it should not remain eloganted(myopia) or shortened(hypermetropia).

I am saying that the methods Bates used to cure people in his time are not that good now, why? in most cases because of your glasses,they did the muscles's job, you used them for a period and your extraocular muscles are not strained! they are relieved, but you're vision is not good no matter how much you relax those muscles, why? because the eye is malformed, you don't have to relax those muscles, quite the contrary, you have to use them to make your eyes stay spherical, to be in the natural state they should be, to reverse the process that you started because of mental strain.
Only when you will regain your spherical eye form(when you don't use your eyes to converge or diverge) you will have effortless clear vision.


Undestand now?

P.s. the link that I wrote in the first post explains all you need to know, it's detailed,

Well, you say that they didn't wear glasses 100 years ago :-[ , of course they did, what is the difference in using glasses 100 years ago compared to today.
There is no difference, because the glasses is the problem, it is thus the same problem today compared to 100 years ago, but maybe the problem is much worse today due to computers and mental stuff and so on.
When you are nearsighted and wear glasses at near distance (for instance when you read a book) the glasses are absolutely not doing the job of the eye muscles, as you think, instead the eye muscles need to strain extrodinary much more compared to if you would read the book naturally without the glasses, and it is all due to the (excuse me) damned glasses. So, that is why you need to relax your eyes. Then you are right that you also need to move your eyes in a way such that the eyeballs becomes spheric again, and I would be very astonished if you should move your eyes in any way different from a naturally dynamically relaxed way. Thus you first need to rewind the tape and then start over and play it from there again at the proper speed, else you wouldn't get meditative harmony in your life. This is what it is all about, to get the driveforce of meditative harmony. The rest comes by product.
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10-04-2010, 01:22 PM
Post: #5
Re: Re:
I eventually read through the article now, sorry I didn't do this earlier.
Ok, well you get this training naturally when you shift from near distance to/from far distance on 3D round objects, just using Bates in daily life.
That is as simple as that. So these cups are unnecessary, better forget about it !
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10-04-2010, 02:07 PM
Post: #6
Re: You are doing it wrong
It's simple how: Find the best technique that work better for you and try to keep relaxed all day long.

That "eye exercises" are just a waste of time, I speak you from my experience. Learn the true: Bates Method. Wink
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10-04-2010, 03:13 PM
Post: #7
Re: You are doing it wrong
lordofthesun Wrote:Sorry I've posted double.


It's ok. It doesn't matter as long as you are not seeing double. ;D

Well, today I was walking through a parking center as usual on my way to work and looked at the cars there as usual,
then I noticed that a car in fact is nothing more than a 3D piece of art ! I was amazed by noticing this, every single car there on the parking place suddenly was a piece of art for me and was really beautiful, so relaxing for the eyes.
I looked at the details of the cars, my focus followed the smooth round details, it was 3D in real life and I was simultaneously walking.
And then directly afterwards I noticed that my eyes were moving much smoother by will since they dynamically had relaxed so much, wow, thus the eyes must have litteraly adapted to a more spherical form.
I much more prefer to look at cars actually than to look at these cups. Big Grin
Then I looked at the details of my coffee cup instead beside my laptop on my desk, it was a 3D piece of art as well, the mouse was also a 3D piece of art, fantastic, and so relaxing.
So, the whole wide world becomes interesting to look at and this drives you to shift focus so much in a naturally way that your eyeballs will form to be spherical finally.
I though found the three cups really cool in some way, like almost a joke actually Smile , as there is another exercise that I call the "snipers thumb" that you can do as well, since they are similar, shift focus from/to the thumb and far distance, this thumb exercise lacks natural eye movement, so what do you think about the result of the "snipers thumb" when it is not natural, well as it is not natural for the eyes then the eyemuscles will end up with strain instead and if there are strain then your eyesight gets worse.
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10-05-2010, 03:29 AM
Post: #8
Re: You are doing it wrong
PS. I can also do these exercises without any pen, without any 3-cups, without any finger at all.
I just imagine that I see an object clearly with my imagination at near distance, then the eyes cross to focus on the illusory object in my mind, then I just shift focus from this near imagined object to far distance, then I just shift focus to the near imagined object again, and so on and so on.
So this is how you learn to shift focus dynamically in your imagination, actually I think it is quite good to improve the imagination so I will try it. Thus I just have used the 3-cups to understand how to move your eyes and then I don't need the cups anymore, because it is much more fun without them, the goal must be to be able to not use the 3-cups at all, at least this is my goal. I mentioned these 3-cups to my collegue and he could not see anything what so ever, laughed, totally clueless he was, but simultaneously I think I am on my way to get perfect natural vision.
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10-05-2010, 07:38 AM
Post: #9
Re: You are doing it wrong
I know that there is some even more drastic method when it comes to form the eyes, called NASAGRA-DRASHTY, some yoga treatment were you focus at your nose, but again this is definitely not something that I should begin with as a beginner if you haven't learnt to relax your eyes, at least according to me, maybe later on when you are more experienced in the relaxation of your eyes and thus are able to restore sight to normal via relaxation again if you should start to see double for instance or so that you can feel early if something is going completely wrong and turn back to known progress.
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10-05-2010, 08:57 AM
Post: #10
Re: You are doing it wrong
About seeing the roundness and depth of the cars, YES! I so much enjoy walking and looking at the depth in trees or in clouds overhead. Since I saw everything flat for so many years this is always a thrill. Peter Grunwald (the Eyebody guy) says myopic people should pay a lot of attention to seeing depth even when things aren't clear. This helps keep your mind involved and your eyes trying to contact that far surface visually instead of turning off and accepting the blur as "good enough". (David's theme of looking at details in an interested curious way)

It's easy for me to converge and more difficult to diverge, as I've written before, so I focus my vision practice and my looking almost exclusively on looking far. However, maybe once a week I look at my nose, making sure I can see both sides of it at the same time. I used to only be able to see the right side, since that eye is stronger and tends to dominate, but now I see both, the right usually more distinct, unless there's bright light to the left. My behavioral optometrist has told me this is a good simple exercise for people who have trouble looking close, starting to need reading glasses, so I practice it just to make sure I never will. Since I can still read very tiny print with no problem (my eyes and brain love to converge!), I hardly need to work on this at all, so my time is better spent on distance practice. Different NVI students need different things -- I think one of the difficulties with wider acceptance of the Bates method and the NVI philosophy in general is that you can't give a formula for everyone which which will work equally well, on the same timeline.

Nancy
2012: 20/45 on average, no glasses except for night driving
2001: 2/200, -10 hard contacts with -1.75 cylinder
Vision & dreams blog: http://dreamersight.wordpress.com/
Vision & dreams website: http://dreamersight.com/
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