Posture Theory

[panda]

What if, and I am probably stretching here, the reason the Bates Method worked better in the 1920s is because people had better posture then compared to now?

I searched the entire Better Eyesight Magazine, and this is all that I found on what Bates had to say about posture and eyesight:

From "A Lesson From The Greeks" in June 1920:

To attain this equilibrium in its perfection requires much. study and practice, but it can be approximated simply by keeping the spine straight and the weight over the balls of the feet, or upon the thighs, if seated. By this means a large degree of relaxation is often obtained, and the effect upon the eyesight has, in several cases, been most marked.

A patient suffering from retinitis pigmentosa found that when he straightened his spine, in walking or sitting, his field at once became normal, remaining so as long as the erect position was maintained. His field had already improved considerably by other methods, but was still very far from normal. In the evening the position had the further effect of relieving his night blindness.

Another patient who had been under treatment for some time for a high degree of myopia without having become able to read the bottom line of the test card, read it for the first time when her body was in the position described. She was able, moreover, to maintain the position for a considerable length of time, whereas ordinarily she was extremely restless, and could not remain still for more than a moment. A third patient, who could not rest her eyes by closing them or by palming, was relieved at once by this means, as was shown, not only by her own feelings, but by the expression of her face.

Sleeping with a straight spine has also been found to be a very effective method of improving the vision and relieving fatigue. The patient with retinitis pigmentosa whose case has just been referred to, suffered continual relapses in the morning. No matter how well he saw in the afternoon, or in the evening, he would wake up unable to distinguish the big C and with his memory so impaired that it would take him the whole morning to get it back. After sleeping on his back, with his lower limbs completely extended and his arms lying straight by his sides, he was able to see the fifty line at ten feet when he woke and his memory was much better than usual at that time. Further improvement resulted from further sleeping in this posture. The patient with myopia had been in the habit of waking up tired after ten or twelve hours' sleep. One night she shared her bed with a guest, and in order not to disturb the latter she tried to keep her body straight. Although she had staid up until a very late hour talking, she awoke feeling perfectly refreshed. Another myopic patient who had been at a standstill for six months, gained two lines after sleeping on his back for one night.

From "Eye Strain While Sleeping" in February 1923:

Posture during sleep has been studied. Lying on the face has generally been accompanied by an increase of eye strain. Sleeping on the back with the arms and limbs extended with slight flexion is undoubtedly better than sleeping on the right or left side. A cramped posture is always wrong. The patient is not always conscious of his posture when asleep. In a number of cases observed by friends of the patient, one or both arms were held behind the head while asleep and strenuously denied by the patient when awake.

The correction of this and other strained positions of the arms and limbs has been followed by decided benefit to the vision.

From "Getting Cured Of Glaucoma" in December 1920:

Since I have been under treatment I have been trying to learn to sleep on my back, as the Doctor says that the body is always under a strain unless the spine is straight. When I am able to do this I waken without pain or hardness in the eyeballs.

I have spent a lot of time researching posture, and my method of choice is the Egoscue Method, developed by Pete Egoscue. I actually find the Egoscue Method to be very similar to the Bates Method.

The Egoscue Method is unique in that it does not recommend you stand up straight while standing or sitting at your desk. In fact, Egoscue says it is impossible to force yourself in to correct posture.

Egoscue says that our posture is so bad these days because we do not perform daily motions that are specific to keeping our posture aligned. He is talking about things like bearing weight above our heads, twisting from side to side, etc.

I want to restate the last point with a side by side:

Bates Method: William Bates says that imperfect vision can sometimes be temporarily improved by effort (example: squinting), but you wont be able to improve it to normal, and this is never sufficient for a complete cure.

Egoscue Method: Pete Egoscue says that imperfect posture can sometimes be temporarily improved by effort (example: standing up straight on the balls of your feet), but you wont be able to improve it to normal, and this is never sufficient for a complete cure.

Egoscue says that posture has been getting worse ever since the industrial revolution, but in the 1980s it took an even greater turn for the worse. He noticed in the 1980s that even young children were getting bad posture, which he had never seen before. In the 1920s it seems that some people had posture problems, but it was nothing compared to today. It is very likely that over 50% of people had good posture in the 1920s, but today Egoscue says only 1% of people have good posture. All of this is due to civilization requiring less and less motion that keeps our posture aligned. And it is not any kind of motion. The motion has to be the specific motion that keeps us aligned. Most champion athletes have bad posture, even though they get plenty of motion. But they don't get the correct kind of motion that keeps their posture aligned. More side by sides:

Bates Method: Bates says that people with perfect eyesight are practicing good vision habits all the time.

Egoscue Method: Egoscue says that people with perfect posture have perfect posture all the time, whether they are standing, sitting, swimming, or sleeping. They don't need to force it and their body is always relaxed by it.

Bates Method: Bates says the reason we have imperfect sight is because we use our eyes incorrectly.

Egoscue Method: Egoscue says the reason we have imperfect posture is because we move our body incorrectly.

Primitive people (example: Native Americans) all have perfect posture and eyesight.

People's posture in the 1920s was much, much better than people's posture today. Many or most people had perfect posture, and those who had posture problems had minor ones compared to today. Maybe this is why good posture was not emphasized so much by Bates. Maybe the ones who were cured very quickly had perfect posture, while those who were cured very slowly or not completely had minor posture problems.

Egoscue believes good vision is dependent on good posture, and people he has helped have reported vision improvements. He also believes total mental relaxation is dependent on good posture. He wrote an entire book on curing mental strain through his method. He found that people who had certain personalities (example: pessimists) shared the same kind bad posture, and that when he helped them fix the bad posture, their personality completely changed.

According to Egoscue's book, I am "Condition 3," which he describes as the worst of all the bad postures. It may take many months of daily exercises (the exercises take about 1 hour to complete) before I begin to even see changes, let alone completely cure it.

Stand in front of a mirror and relax your body. Move around a bit to let your limbs go where they want to go. Do not force yourself to stand in any way. Just stand naturally. If your posture is not like described, you have bad posture:

-Shoulders, hips, knees level with each other. No drooping shoulders or hips.
-Ankles directly below knees, knees directly below hips, hips directly below shoulders (many people have wider shoulders than hips, so in this case the shoulders should be exactly centered above the hips)
-Each foot should point exactly to it's 12o'clock. Straight ahead, not turned out at all. Knees point exactly at 12o'clock too.
-Your palms should be facing each other, so that you can only see your index finger and thumb. If your hands are turned so that you can see multiple fingers or the back of your hands, you are Condition 3 like me.
-Weight should be on the balls of your feet
-If you turn to the side, your ankles should be directly under your knees, your knees should be directly under your hips, your hips should be directly under your shoulders, and the center of your head should be directly above your shoulders. No foreward head.

If you want to learn more about perfect posture and how to improve it, I recommend The Egoscue Method of Health Through Motion by Pete Egoscue. However, before you can begin with fixing your posture, you must eliminate any chronic pains you have. So if you have chronic pain, first get Pain Free by Pete Egoscue. But if you overall feel relatively pain free, I recommend the first book. The first book also has advice on how to eliminate chronic pain first, but Pain Free is more specific. The entire book is focused on pain symptoms all over the body.

(Sorry for not providing direct links above. I don't want to risk anyone thinking I am trying to make money with affiliated links.)

So my theory is:

Perfecting our posture is not sufficient for perfecting our eyesight by itself, but it is a requirement before improving and perfecting our vision with the Bates Method.

[Aethersky]

bad posture ITSELF does not causes problem with eyesight. BUT if you use bad posture while reading and read at 4 inches for hours a day, then common sense says a person's vision is going down.
in terms of accomdation for an emmetropic eye
1./3m = 3D
1/10m = 10 cm = 10D
so posture for close work makes a HUGE difference.
but theres no evidence that bad posture ITSELF leads to poor vision

[ted]

I feel like improving posture should be a given. Like with improving vision, to me it's like, of course you should improve your posture. The theory as to how to correct bad posture, though, is new to me. I mean I think you can at least help your posture a little bit by directly changing it, but of course it probably helps to do those other types of natural exercises to promote this as well.

Another way to look at it is, to be happy, or to live fully, of course you should have good posture. From my experience improving posture has helped me get into a situation in which I can sense eye strain better, so it helps at least in an indirect way.

One thing I think about is all of the other things I'm changing for the better in my life in order to try and help along vision improvement. It's hard to tell if these other good changes are necessary, but does it really matter? Get better in all areas of life, because you might as well.

I personally think its all at least somewhat related; improving one area of your life will have some kind of impact in other areas.

[Nancy]

bad posture ITSELF does not causes problem with eyesight. BUT if you use bad posture while reading and read at 4 inches for hours a day, then common sense says a person's vision is going down.
in terms of accomdation for an emmetropic eye
1./3m = 3D
1/10m = 10 cm = 10D
so posture for close work makes a HUGE difference.
but theres no evidence that bad posture ITSELF leads to poor vision

A few years ago I took several Alexander Technique lessons, before my teacher moved away. My posture is much better now and I'm also more aware of it, knowing what to do to correct it if I feel I'm slumping. I agree this alone will probably not correct vision problems. Yet poor posture is a body strain that uses energy and is not helping your vision or attitude. Here's a sample post on my other blog. Search there under the Alexander Technique category for more posts. http://dreamersight.wordpress.com/2009/0...sson-neck/

[Tsukiomi]

This is an interesting perspective. I always notice that when my vision improves, my posture improves as a consequence. I have always viewed posture as something that changes based on your self image and self control. When I am practicing a new form of thinking, my posture seems to correct itself. Sometimes, correcting your posture can have an effect on your thinking- providing you aren't forcing it.
I am more and more convinced that this is a psychologically fueled issue, and its one of the areas Dr.Bares barely covered. There has to be a point that connects all the concepts of bates together that we are missing in our modern thinking or daresay, that bates work was not finished.

[ted]

This TED talk really encompasses the points we're talking about here.

http://new.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_...ho_you_are

Amy Cuddy talks about how "power posing", or putting yourself into powerful, confident looking poses can actually start changing your attitude. It's probably quite subtle, but imagine if you did power posing for 30 minutes a day over a year? It'd probably be beneficial. Better yet, if you changed the way you behaved physically all day long, that would have even more affect. Sounds kinda like when someone asked how long you should practice natural vision improvement, and Bates response was "ALL DAY LONG."

I think it's important to feel open and receptive to the world. That means that not only your mental attitude, but your body language would also change. You can tell when someone looks shy vs happy and confident. I think one thing myopes have problems with, according to my experience and what I've read, is that they don't know how to be relaxed and confident. Maybe they are afraid of how their world might change if they become more open/confident/happy/relaxed. Eventually, if you want to see clearly, you'll have to accept the (good) consequences of it. Again, I haven't improved my vision enough to know how accurate this is, but I think embodying these positive attitudes pretty much directly coincides with clearer vision.

[Aethersky]

no no that's the wrong connection.

SOME (obiviously not all) myopes to be people who are antisocial, bookwoorms, shy, not confident, bad posture, unfit so they PUT their NOSE in the book. Thats why their vision goes down.

they "do not want to see the world" so they engage in close work ALMOST ALL the time.

good posture/happy thoughts DO NOT lead to better vision.
BUT poor thoughts/bad posture/unfit/etc create HABITS that instill bad vision.

This is the logical (and common sense) explanation

[ted]

Yeah that makes sense. Look at it this way, too: if now they become less shy, more outgoing, confident, etc. then they will spend less time in the books, avoiding life, etc. If they begin living life in a better way, their vision may begin to correct itself.

What you are saying Aethersky seems to imply that they can still be this antisocial, avoidant personality type yet still correct their vision. I mean that's probably possible, but why wouldn't you want to improve vision and other aspects of your life at the same time? I would think you'd be making the task more difficult on yourself if you didn't improve in these other areas of your life as well.

I don't know, here's where I would like people that have had large improvements to chime in. Was the process of improvement much more than just more clarity of eyesight? Did other things improve as a side affect of vision improvement or did your vision improve because of seemingly unrelated things you worked on? Obviously it has to be a combination of the two, but I'm asking which way it tended to. Whatchyall think?

[AlkalineWater7]

What if, and I am probably stretching here, the reason the Bates Method worked better in the 1920s is because people had better posture then compared to now?

I searched the entire Better Eyesight Magazine, and this is all that I found on what Bates had to say about posture and eyesight:

From "A Lesson From The Greeks" in June 1920:

To attain this equilibrium in its perfection requires much. study and practice, but it can be approximated simply by keeping the spine straight and the weight over the balls of the feet, or upon the thighs, if seated. By this means a large degree of relaxation is often obtained, and the effect upon the eyesight has, in several cases, been most marked.

A patient suffering from retinitis pigmentosa found that when he straightened his spine, in walking or sitting, his field at once became normal, remaining so as long as the erect position was maintained. His field had already improved considerably by other methods, but was still very far from normal. In the evening the position had the further effect of relieving his night blindness.

Another patient who had been under treatment for some time for a high degree of myopia without having become able to read the bottom line of the test card, read it for the first time when her body was in the position described. She was able, moreover, to maintain the position for a considerable length of time, whereas ordinarily she was extremely restless, and could not remain still for more than a moment. A third patient, who could not rest her eyes by closing them or by palming, was relieved at once by this means, as was shown, not only by her own feelings, but by the expression of her face.

Sleeping with a straight spine has also been found to be a very effective method of improving the vision and relieving fatigue. The patient with retinitis pigmentosa whose case has just been referred to, suffered continual relapses in the morning. No matter how well he saw in the afternoon, or in the evening, he would wake up unable to distinguish the big C and with his memory so impaired that it would take him the whole morning to get it back. After sleeping on his back, with his lower limbs completely extended and his arms lying straight by his sides, he was able to see the fifty line at ten feet when he woke and his memory was much better than usual at that time. Further improvement resulted from further sleeping in this posture. The patient with myopia had been in the habit of waking up tired after ten or twelve hours' sleep. One night she shared her bed with a guest, and in order not to disturb the latter she tried to keep her body straight. Although she had staid up until a very late hour talking, she awoke feeling perfectly refreshed. Another myopic patient who had been at a standstill for six months, gained two lines after sleeping on his back for one night.

From "Eye Strain While Sleeping" in February 1923:

Posture during sleep has been studied. Lying on the face has generally been accompanied by an increase of eye strain. Sleeping on the back with the arms and limbs extended with slight flexion is undoubtedly better than sleeping on the right or left side. A cramped posture is always wrong. The patient is not always conscious of his posture when asleep. In a number of cases observed by friends of the patient, one or both arms were held behind the head while asleep and strenuously denied by the patient when awake.

The correction of this and other strained positions of the arms and limbs has been followed by decided benefit to the vision.

From "Getting Cured Of Glaucoma" in December 1920:

Since I have been under treatment I have been trying to learn to sleep on my back, as the Doctor says that the body is always under a strain unless the spine is straight. When I am able to do this I waken without pain or hardness in the eyeballs.

I have spent a lot of time researching posture, and my method of choice is the Egoscue Method, developed by Pete Egoscue. I actually find the Egoscue Method to be very similar to the Bates Method.

The Egoscue Method is unique in that it does not recommend you stand up straight while standing or sitting at your desk. In fact, Egoscue says it is impossible to force yourself in to correct posture.

Egoscue says that our posture is so bad these days because we do not perform daily motions that are specific to keeping our posture aligned. He is talking about things like bearing weight above our heads, twisting from side to side, etc.

I want to restate the last point with a side by side:

Bates Method: William Bates says that imperfect vision can sometimes be temporarily improved by effort (example: squinting), but you wont be able to improve it to normal, and this is never sufficient for a complete cure.

Egoscue Method: Pete Egoscue says that imperfect posture can sometimes be temporarily improved by effort (example: standing up straight on the balls of your feet), but you wont be able to improve it to normal, and this is never sufficient for a complete cure.

Egoscue says that posture has been getting worse ever since the industrial revolution, but in the 1980s it took an even greater turn for the worse. He noticed in the 1980s that even young children were getting bad posture, which he had never seen before. In the 1920s it seems that some people had posture problems, but it was nothing compared to today. It is very likely that over 50% of people had good posture in the 1920s, but today Egoscue says only 1% of people have good posture. All of this is due to civilization requiring less and less motion that keeps our posture aligned. And it is not any kind of motion. The motion has to be the specific motion that keeps us aligned. Most champion athletes have bad posture, even though they get plenty of motion. But they don't get the correct kind of motion that keeps their posture aligned. More side by sides:

Bates Method: Bates says that people with perfect eyesight are practicing good vision habits all the time.

Egoscue Method: Egoscue says that people with perfect posture have perfect posture all the time, whether they are standing, sitting, swimming, or sleeping. They don't need to force it and their body is always relaxed by it.

Bates Method: Bates says the reason we have imperfect sight is because we use our eyes incorrectly.

Egoscue Method: Egoscue says the reason we have imperfect posture is because we move our body incorrectly.

Primitive people (example: Native Americans) all have perfect posture and eyesight.

People's posture in the 1920s was much, much better than people's posture today. Many or most people had perfect posture, and those who had posture problems had minor ones compared to today. Maybe this is why good posture was not emphasized so much by Bates. Maybe the ones who were cured very quickly had perfect posture, while those who were cured very slowly or not completely had minor posture problems.

Egoscue believes good vision is dependent on good posture, and people he has helped have reported vision improvements. He also believes total mental relaxation is dependent on good posture. He wrote an entire book on curing mental strain through his method. He found that people who had certain personalities (example: pessimists) shared the same kind bad posture, and that when he helped them fix the bad posture, their personality completely changed.

According to Egoscue's book, I am "Condition 3," which he describes as the worst of all the bad postures. It may take many months of daily exercises (the exercises take about 1 hour to complete) before I begin to even see changes, let alone completely cure it.

Stand in front of a mirror and relax your body. Move around a bit to let your limbs go where they want to go. Do not force yourself to stand in any way. Just stand naturally. If your posture is not like described, you have bad posture:

-Shoulders, hips, knees level with each other. No drooping shoulders or hips.
-Ankles directly below knees, knees directly below hips, hips directly below shoulders (many people have wider shoulders than hips, so in this case the shoulders should be exactly centered above the hips)
-Each foot should point exactly to it's 12o'clock. Straight ahead, not turned out at all. Knees point exactly at 12o'clock too.
-Your palms should be facing each other, so that you can only see your index finger and thumb. If your hands are turned so that you can see multiple fingers or the back of your hands, you are Condition 3 like me.
-Weight should be on the balls of your feet
-If you turn to the side, your ankles should be directly under your knees, your knees should be directly under your hips, your hips should be directly under your shoulders, and the center of your head should be directly above your shoulders. No foreward head.

If you want to learn more about perfect posture and how to improve it, I recommend The Egoscue Method of Health Through Motion by Pete Egoscue. However, before you can begin with fixing your posture, you must eliminate any chronic pains you have. So if you have chronic pain, first get Pain Free by Pete Egoscue. But if you overall feel relatively pain free, I recommend the first book. The first book also has advice on how to eliminate chronic pain first, but Pain Free is more specific. The entire book is focused on pain symptoms all over the body.

(Sorry for not providing direct links above. I don't want to risk anyone thinking I am trying to make money with affiliated links.)

So my theory is:

Perfecting our posture is not sufficient for perfecting our eyesight by itself, but it is a requirement before improving and perfecting our vision with the Bates Method.

Makes sense to me. If strain lowers vision, and strain is produced from poor posture, it stands to reason that improving your posture and untying knots of tension in your body will somewhat improve your vision.

[arocarty]

What if, and I am probably stretching here, the reason the Bates Method worked better in the 1920s is because people had better posture then compared to now?

I searched the entire Better Eyesight Magazine, and this is all that I found on what Bates had to say about posture and eyesight:

From "A Lesson From The Greeks" in June 1920:

To attain this equilibrium in its perfection requires much. study and practice, but it can be approximated simply by keeping the spine straight and the weight over the balls of the feet, or upon the thighs, if seated. By this means a large degree of relaxation is often obtained, and the effect upon the eyesight has, in several cases, been most marked.

A patient suffering from retinitis pigmentosa found that when he straightened his spine, in walking or sitting, his field at once became normal, remaining so as long as the erect position was maintained. His field had already improved considerably by other methods, but was still very far from normal. In the evening the position had the further effect of relieving his night blindness.

Another patient who had been under treatment for some time for a high degree of myopia without having become able to read the bottom line of the test card, read it for the first time when her body was in the position described. She was able, moreover, to maintain the position for a considerable length of time, whereas ordinarily she was extremely restless, and could not remain still for more than a moment. A third patient, who could not rest her eyes by closing them or by palming, was relieved at once by this means, as was shown, not only by her own feelings, but by the expression of her face.

Sleeping with a straight spine has also been found to be a very effective method of improving the vision and relieving fatigue. The patient with retinitis pigmentosa whose case has just been referred to, suffered continual relapses in the morning. No matter how well he saw in the afternoon, or in the evening, he would wake up unable to distinguish the big C and with his memory so impaired that it would take him the whole morning to get it back. After sleeping on his back, with his lower limbs completely extended and his arms lying straight by his sides, he was able to see the fifty line at ten feet when he woke and his memory was much better than usual at that time. Further improvement resulted from further sleeping in this posture. The patient with myopia had been in the habit of waking up tired after ten or twelve hours' sleep. One night she shared her bed with a guest, and in order not to disturb the latter she tried to keep her body straight. Although she had staid up until a very late hour talking, she awoke feeling perfectly refreshed. Another myopic patient who had been at a standstill for six months, gained two lines after sleeping on his back for one night.

From "Eye Strain While Sleeping" in February 1923:

Posture during sleep has been studied. Lying on the face has generally been accompanied by an increase of eye strain. Sleeping on the back with the arms and limbs extended with slight flexion is undoubtedly better than sleeping on the right or left side. A cramped posture is always wrong. The patient is not always conscious of his posture when asleep. In a number of cases observed by friends of the patient, one or both arms were held behind the head while asleep and strenuously denied by the patient when awake.

The correction of this and other strained positions of the arms and limbs has been followed by decided benefit to the vision.

From "Getting Cured Of Glaucoma" in December 1920:

Since I have been under treatment I have been trying to learn to sleep on my back, as the Doctor says that the body is always under a strain unless the spine is straight. When I am able to do this I waken without pain or hardness in the eyeballs.

I have spent a lot of time researching posture, and my method of choice is the Egoscue Method, developed by Pete Egoscue. I actually find the Egoscue Method to be very similar to the Bates Method.

The Egoscue Method is unique in that it does not recommend you stand up straight while standing or sitting at your desk. In fact, Egoscue says it is impossible to force yourself in to correct posture.

Egoscue says that our posture is so bad these days because we do not perform daily motions that are specific to keeping our posture aligned. He is talking about things like bearing weight above our heads, twisting from side to side, etc.

I want to restate the last point with a side by side:

Bates Method: William Bates says that imperfect vision can sometimes be temporarily improved by effort (example: squinting), but you wont be able to improve it to normal, and this is never sufficient for a complete cure.

Egoscue Method: Pete Egoscue says that imperfect posture can sometimes be temporarily improved by effort (example: standing up straight on the balls of your feet), but you wont be able to improve it to normal, and this is never sufficient for a complete cure.

Egoscue says that posture has been getting worse ever since the industrial revolution, but in the 1980s it took an even greater turn for the worse. He noticed in the 1980s that even young children were getting bad posture, which he had never seen before. In the 1920s it seems that some people had posture problems, but it was nothing compared to today. It is very likely that over 50% of people had good posture in the 1920s, but today Egoscue says only 1% of people have good posture. All of this is due to civilization requiring less and less motion that keeps our posture aligned. And it is not any kind of motion. The motion has to be the specific motion that keeps us aligned. Most champion athletes have bad posture, even though they get plenty of motion. But they don't get the correct kind of motion that keeps their posture aligned. More side by sides:

Bates Method: Bates says that people with perfect eyesight are practicing good vision habits all the time.

Egoscue Method: Egoscue says that people with perfect posture have perfect posture all the time, whether they are standing, sitting, swimming, or sleeping. They don't need to force it and their body is always relaxed by it.

Bates Method: Bates says the reason we have imperfect sight is because we use our eyes incorrectly.

Egoscue Method: Egoscue says the reason we have imperfect posture is because we move our body incorrectly.

Primitive people (example: Native Americans) all have perfect posture and eyesight.

People's posture in the 1920s was much, much better than people's posture today. Many or most people had perfect posture, and those who had posture problems had minor ones compared to today. Maybe this is why good posture was not emphasized so much by Bates. Maybe the ones who were cured very quickly had perfect posture, while those who were cured very slowly or not completely had minor posture problems.

Egoscue believes good vision is dependent on good posture, and people he has helped have reported vision improvements. He also believes total mental relaxation is dependent on good posture. He wrote an entire book on curing mental strain through his method. He found that people who had certain personalities (example: pessimists) shared the same kind bad posture, and that when he helped them fix the bad posture, their personality completely changed.

According to Egoscue's book, I am "Condition 3," which he describes as the worst of all the bad postures. It may take many months of daily exercises (the exercises take about 1 hour to complete) before I begin to even see changes, let alone completely cure it.

Stand in front of a mirror and relax your body. Move around a bit to let your limbs go where they want to go. Do not force yourself to stand in any way. Just stand naturally. If your posture is not like described, you have bad posture:

-Shoulders, hips, knees level with each other. No drooping shoulders or hips.
-Ankles directly below knees, knees directly below hips, hips directly below shoulders (many people have wider shoulders than hips, so in this case the shoulders should be exactly centered above the hips)
-Each foot should point exactly to it's 12o'clock. Straight ahead, not turned out at all. Knees point exactly at 12o'clock too.
-Your palms should be facing each other, so that you can only see your index finger and thumb. If your hands are turned so that you can see multiple fingers or the back of your hands, you are Condition 3 like me.
-Weight should be on the balls of your feet
-If you turn to the side, your ankles should be directly under your knees, your knees should be directly under your hips, your hips should be directly under your shoulders, and the center of your head should be directly above your shoulders. No foreward head.

If you want to learn more about perfect posture and how to improve it, I recommend The Egoscue Method of Health Through Motion by Pete Egoscue. However, before you can begin with fixing your posture, you must eliminate any chronic pains you have. So if you have chronic pain, first get Pain Free by Pete Egoscue. But if you overall feel relatively pain free, I recommend the first book. The first book also has advice on how to eliminate chronic pain first, but Pain Free is more specific. The entire book is focused on pain symptoms all over the body.

(Sorry for not providing direct links above. I don't want to risk anyone thinking I am trying to make money with affiliated links.)

So my theory is:

Perfecting our posture is not sufficient for perfecting our eyesight by itself, but it is a requirement before improving and perfecting our vision with the Bates Method.

Makes sense to me. If strain lowers vision, and strain is produced from poor posture, it stands to reason that improving your posture and untying knots of tension in your body will somewhat improve your vision.

As a complimentary method, this conversation would be better to carry on in the "complimentary methods" forum. While not doubt helpful, perfect posture is not the sole answer to vision problems. Many people have perfect or near perfect posture and still have mental strain, bad visual habits, and refractive errors.

[AlkalineWater7]

What if, and I am probably stretching here, the reason the Bates Method worked better in the 1920s is because people had better posture then compared to now?

I searched the entire Better Eyesight Magazine, and this is all that I found on what Bates had to say about posture and eyesight:

From "A Lesson From The Greeks" in June 1920:

To attain this equilibrium in its perfection requires much. study and practice, but it can be approximated simply by keeping the spine straight and the weight over the balls of the feet, or upon the thighs, if seated. By this means a large degree of relaxation is often obtained, and the effect upon the eyesight has, in several cases, been most marked.

A patient suffering from retinitis pigmentosa found that when he straightened his spine, in walking or sitting, his field at once became normal, remaining so as long as the erect position was maintained. His field had already improved considerably by other methods, but was still very far from normal. In the evening the position had the further effect of relieving his night blindness.

Another patient who had been under treatment for some time for a high degree of myopia without having become able to read the bottom line of the test card, read it for the first time when her body was in the position described. She was able, moreover, to maintain the position for a considerable length of time, whereas ordinarily she was extremely restless, and could not remain still for more than a moment. A third patient, who could not rest her eyes by closing them or by palming, was relieved at once by this means, as was shown, not only by her own feelings, but by the expression of her face.

Sleeping with a straight spine has also been found to be a very effective method of improving the vision and relieving fatigue. The patient with retinitis pigmentosa whose case has just been referred to, suffered continual relapses in the morning. No matter how well he saw in the afternoon, or in the evening, he would wake up unable to distinguish the big C and with his memory so impaired that it would take him the whole morning to get it back. After sleeping on his back, with his lower limbs completely extended and his arms lying straight by his sides, he was able to see the fifty line at ten feet when he woke and his memory was much better than usual at that time. Further improvement resulted from further sleeping in this posture. The patient with myopia had been in the habit of waking up tired after ten or twelve hours' sleep. One night she shared her bed with a guest, and in order not to disturb the latter she tried to keep her body straight. Although she had staid up until a very late hour talking, she awoke feeling perfectly refreshed. Another myopic patient who had been at a standstill for six months, gained two lines after sleeping on his back for one night.

From "Eye Strain While Sleeping" in February 1923:

Posture during sleep has been studied. Lying on the face has generally been accompanied by an increase of eye strain. Sleeping on the back with the arms and limbs extended with slight flexion is undoubtedly better than sleeping on the right or left side. A cramped posture is always wrong. The patient is not always conscious of his posture when asleep. In a number of cases observed by friends of the patient, one or both arms were held behind the head while asleep and strenuously denied by the patient when awake.

The correction of this and other strained positions of the arms and limbs has been followed by decided benefit to the vision.

From "Getting Cured Of Glaucoma" in December 1920:

Since I have been under treatment I have been trying to learn to sleep on my back, as the Doctor says that the body is always under a strain unless the spine is straight. When I am able to do this I waken without pain or hardness in the eyeballs.

I have spent a lot of time researching posture, and my method of choice is the Egoscue Method, developed by Pete Egoscue. I actually find the Egoscue Method to be very similar to the Bates Method.

The Egoscue Method is unique in that it does not recommend you stand up straight while standing or sitting at your desk. In fact, Egoscue says it is impossible to force yourself in to correct posture.

Egoscue says that our posture is so bad these days because we do not perform daily motions that are specific to keeping our posture aligned. He is talking about things like bearing weight above our heads, twisting from side to side, etc.

I want to restate the last point with a side by side:

Bates Method: William Bates says that imperfect vision can sometimes be temporarily improved by effort (example: squinting), but you wont be able to improve it to normal, and this is never sufficient for a complete cure.

Egoscue Method: Pete Egoscue says that imperfect posture can sometimes be temporarily improved by effort (example: standing up straight on the balls of your feet), but you wont be able to improve it to normal, and this is never sufficient for a complete cure.

Egoscue says that posture has been getting worse ever since the industrial revolution, but in the 1980s it took an even greater turn for the worse. He noticed in the 1980s that even young children were getting bad posture, which he had never seen before. In the 1920s it seems that some people had posture problems, but it was nothing compared to today. It is very likely that over 50% of people had good posture in the 1920s, but today Egoscue says only 1% of people have good posture. All of this is due to civilization requiring less and less motion that keeps our posture aligned. And it is not any kind of motion. The motion has to be the specific motion that keeps us aligned. Most champion athletes have bad posture, even though they get plenty of motion. But they don't get the correct kind of motion that keeps their posture aligned. More side by sides:

Bates Method: Bates says that people with perfect eyesight are practicing good vision habits all the time.

Egoscue Method: Egoscue says that people with perfect posture have perfect posture all the time, whether they are standing, sitting, swimming, or sleeping. They don't need to force it and their body is always relaxed by it.

Bates Method: Bates says the reason we have imperfect sight is because we use our eyes incorrectly.

Egoscue Method: Egoscue says the reason we have imperfect posture is because we move our body incorrectly.

Primitive people (example: Native Americans) all have perfect posture and eyesight.

People's posture in the 1920s was much, much better than people's posture today. Many or most people had perfect posture, and those who had posture problems had minor ones compared to today. Maybe this is why good posture was not emphasized so much by Bates. Maybe the ones who were cured very quickly had perfect posture, while those who were cured very slowly or not completely had minor posture problems.

Egoscue believes good vision is dependent on good posture, and people he has helped have reported vision improvements. He also believes total mental relaxation is dependent on good posture. He wrote an entire book on curing mental strain through his method. He found that people who had certain personalities (example: pessimists) shared the same kind bad posture, and that when he helped them fix the bad posture, their personality completely changed.

According to Egoscue's book, I am "Condition 3," which he describes as the worst of all the bad postures. It may take many months of daily exercises (the exercises take about 1 hour to complete) before I begin to even see changes, let alone completely cure it.

Stand in front of a mirror and relax your body. Move around a bit to let your limbs go where they want to go. Do not force yourself to stand in any way. Just stand naturally. If your posture is not like described, you have bad posture:

-Shoulders, hips, knees level with each other. No drooping shoulders or hips.
-Ankles directly below knees, knees directly below hips, hips directly below shoulders (many people have wider shoulders than hips, so in this case the shoulders should be exactly centered above the hips)
-Each foot should point exactly to it's 12o'clock. Straight ahead, not turned out at all. Knees point exactly at 12o'clock too.
-Your palms should be facing each other, so that you can only see your index finger and thumb. If your hands are turned so that you can see multiple fingers or the back of your hands, you are Condition 3 like me.
-Weight should be on the balls of your feet
-If you turn to the side, your ankles should be directly under your knees, your knees should be directly under your hips, your hips should be directly under your shoulders, and the center of your head should be directly above your shoulders. No foreward head.

If you want to learn more about perfect posture and how to improve it, I recommend The Egoscue Method of Health Through Motion by Pete Egoscue. However, before you can begin with fixing your posture, you must eliminate any chronic pains you have. So if you have chronic pain, first get Pain Free by Pete Egoscue. But if you overall feel relatively pain free, I recommend the first book. The first book also has advice on how to eliminate chronic pain first, but Pain Free is more specific. The entire book is focused on pain symptoms all over the body.

(Sorry for not providing direct links above. I don't want to risk anyone thinking I am trying to make money with affiliated links.)

So my theory is:

Perfecting our posture is not sufficient for perfecting our eyesight by itself, but it is a requirement before improving and perfecting our vision with the Bates Method.

Makes sense to me. If strain lowers vision, and strain is produced from poor posture, it stands to reason that improving your posture and untying knots of tension in your body will somewhat improve your vision.

As a complimentary method, this conversation would be better to carry on in the "complimentary methods" forum. While not doubt helpful, perfect posture is not the sole answer to vision problems. Many people have perfect or near perfect posture and still have mental strain, bad visual habits, and refractive errors.

I never claimed that perfect posture is the sole answer to vision problems. I just said that it would be a good idea to improve your posture to reduce tension and strain in the body. Note that I said improving posture will "somewhat" improve vision, not "completely" improve vision or eradicate refractive errors altogether. I can attest to this due to the fact that I've had first-hand experience with better posture yielding slightly better visual acuity. I acknowledge that what works for me does not necessarily work for someone else. The post that I commented on even acknowledges that "Perfecting our posture is not sufficient for perfecting our eyesight by itself."

[arocarty]

What if, and I am probably stretching here, the reason the Bates Method worked better in the 1920s is because people had better posture then compared to now?

I searched the entire Better Eyesight Magazine, and this is all that I found on what Bates had to say about posture and eyesight:

From "A Lesson From The Greeks" in June 1920:

To attain this equilibrium in its perfection requires much. study and practice, but it can be approximated simply by keeping the spine straight and the weight over the balls of the feet, or upon the thighs, if seated. By this means a large degree of relaxation is often obtained, and the effect upon the eyesight has, in several cases, been most marked.

A patient suffering from retinitis pigmentosa found that when he straightened his spine, in walking or sitting, his field at once became normal, remaining so as long as the erect position was maintained. His field had already improved considerably by other methods, but was still very far from normal. In the evening the position had the further effect of relieving his night blindness.

Another patient who had been under treatment for some time for a high degree of myopia without having become able to read the bottom line of the test card, read it for the first time when her body was in the position described. She was able, moreover, to maintain the position for a considerable length of time, whereas ordinarily she was extremely restless, and could not remain still for more than a moment. A third patient, who could not rest her eyes by closing them or by palming, was relieved at once by this means, as was shown, not only by her own feelings, but by the expression of her face.

Sleeping with a straight spine has also been found to be a very effective method of improving the vision and relieving fatigue. The patient with retinitis pigmentosa whose case has just been referred to, suffered continual relapses in the morning. No matter how well he saw in the afternoon, or in the evening, he would wake up unable to distinguish the big C and with his memory so impaired that it would take him the whole morning to get it back. After sleeping on his back, with his lower limbs completely extended and his arms lying straight by his sides, he was able to see the fifty line at ten feet when he woke and his memory was much better than usual at that time. Further improvement resulted from further sleeping in this posture. The patient with myopia had been in the habit of waking up tired after ten or twelve hours' sleep. One night she shared her bed with a guest, and in order not to disturb the latter she tried to keep her body straight. Although she had staid up until a very late hour talking, she awoke feeling perfectly refreshed. Another myopic patient who had been at a standstill for six months, gained two lines after sleeping on his back for one night.

From "Eye Strain While Sleeping" in February 1923:

Posture during sleep has been studied. Lying on the face has generally been accompanied by an increase of eye strain. Sleeping on the back with the arms and limbs extended with slight flexion is undoubtedly better than sleeping on the right or left side. A cramped posture is always wrong. The patient is not always conscious of his posture when asleep. In a number of cases observed by friends of the patient, one or both arms were held behind the head while asleep and strenuously denied by the patient when awake.

The correction of this and other strained positions of the arms and limbs has been followed by decided benefit to the vision.

From "Getting Cured Of Glaucoma" in December 1920:

Since I have been under treatment I have been trying to learn to sleep on my back, as the Doctor says that the body is always under a strain unless the spine is straight. When I am able to do this I waken without pain or hardness in the eyeballs.

I have spent a lot of time researching posture, and my method of choice is the Egoscue Method, developed by Pete Egoscue. I actually find the Egoscue Method to be very similar to the Bates Method.

The Egoscue Method is unique in that it does not recommend you stand up straight while standing or sitting at your desk. In fact, Egoscue says it is impossible to force yourself in to correct posture.

Egoscue says that our posture is so bad these days because we do not perform daily motions that are specific to keeping our posture aligned. He is talking about things like bearing weight above our heads, twisting from side to side, etc.

I want to restate the last point with a side by side:

Bates Method: William Bates says that imperfect vision can sometimes be temporarily improved by effort (example: squinting), but you wont be able to improve it to normal, and this is never sufficient for a complete cure.

Egoscue Method: Pete Egoscue says that imperfect posture can sometimes be temporarily improved by effort (example: standing up straight on the balls of your feet), but you wont be able to improve it to normal, and this is never sufficient for a complete cure.

Egoscue says that posture has been getting worse ever since the industrial revolution, but in the 1980s it took an even greater turn for the worse. He noticed in the 1980s that even young children were getting bad posture, which he had never seen before. In the 1920s it seems that some people had posture problems, but it was nothing compared to today. It is very likely that over 50% of people had good posture in the 1920s, but today Egoscue says only 1% of people have good posture. All of this is due to civilization requiring less and less motion that keeps our posture aligned. And it is not any kind of motion. The motion has to be the specific motion that keeps us aligned. Most champion athletes have bad posture, even though they get plenty of motion. But they don't get the correct kind of motion that keeps their posture aligned. More side by sides:

Bates Method: Bates says that people with perfect eyesight are practicing good vision habits all the time.

Egoscue Method: Egoscue says that people with perfect posture have perfect posture all the time, whether they are standing, sitting, swimming, or sleeping. They don't need to force it and their body is always relaxed by it.

Bates Method: Bates says the reason we have imperfect sight is because we use our eyes incorrectly.

Egoscue Method: Egoscue says the reason we have imperfect posture is because we move our body incorrectly.

Primitive people (example: Native Americans) all have perfect posture and eyesight.

People's posture in the 1920s was much, much better than people's posture today. Many or most people had perfect posture, and those who had posture problems had minor ones compared to today. Maybe this is why good posture was not emphasized so much by Bates. Maybe the ones who were cured very quickly had perfect posture, while those who were cured very slowly or not completely had minor posture problems.

Egoscue believes good vision is dependent on good posture, and people he has helped have reported vision improvements. He also believes total mental relaxation is dependent on good posture. He wrote an entire book on curing mental strain through his method. He found that people who had certain personalities (example: pessimists) shared the same kind bad posture, and that when he helped them fix the bad posture, their personality completely changed.

According to Egoscue's book, I am "Condition 3," which he describes as the worst of all the bad postures. It may take many months of daily exercises (the exercises take about 1 hour to complete) before I begin to even see changes, let alone completely cure it.

Stand in front of a mirror and relax your body. Move around a bit to let your limbs go where they want to go. Do not force yourself to stand in any way. Just stand naturally. If your posture is not like described, you have bad posture:

-Shoulders, hips, knees level with each other. No drooping shoulders or hips.
-Ankles directly below knees, knees directly below hips, hips directly below shoulders (many people have wider shoulders than hips, so in this case the shoulders should be exactly centered above the hips)
-Each foot should point exactly to it's 12o'clock. Straight ahead, not turned out at all. Knees point exactly at 12o'clock too.
-Your palms should be facing each other, so that you can only see your index finger and thumb. If your hands are turned so that you can see multiple fingers or the back of your hands, you are Condition 3 like me.
-Weight should be on the balls of your feet
-If you turn to the side, your ankles should be directly under your knees, your knees should be directly under your hips, your hips should be directly under your shoulders, and the center of your head should be directly above your shoulders. No foreward head.

If you want to learn more about perfect posture and how to improve it, I recommend The Egoscue Method of Health Through Motion by Pete Egoscue. However, before you can begin with fixing your posture, you must eliminate any chronic pains you have. So if you have chronic pain, first get Pain Free by Pete Egoscue. But if you overall feel relatively pain free, I recommend the first book. The first book also has advice on how to eliminate chronic pain first, but Pain Free is more specific. The entire book is focused on pain symptoms all over the body.

(Sorry for not providing direct links above. I don't want to risk anyone thinking I am trying to make money with affiliated links.)

So my theory is:

Perfecting our posture is not sufficient for perfecting our eyesight by itself, but it is a requirement before improving and perfecting our vision with the Bates Method.

Makes sense to me. If strain lowers vision, and strain is produced from poor posture, it stands to reason that improving your posture and untying knots of tension in your body will somewhat improve your vision.

As a complimentary method, this conversation would be better to carry on in the "complimentary methods" forum. While not doubt helpful, perfect posture is not the sole answer to vision problems. Many people have perfect or near perfect posture and still have mental strain, bad visual habits, and refractive errors.

I never claimed that perfect posture is the sole answer to vision problems. I just said that it would be a good idea to improve your posture to reduce tension and strain in the body. Note that I said improving posture will "somewhat" improve vision, not "completely" improve vision or eradicate refractive errors altogether. I can attest to this due to the fact that I've had first-hand experience with better posture yielding slightly better visual acuity. I acknowledge that what works for me does not necessarily work for someone else. The post that I commented on even acknowledges that "Perfecting our posture is not sufficient for perfecting our eyesight by itself."

Neither has it been proven it's a 'requirement' or prerequisite for improving vision. That's quite speculative, lacks any significant data / research. Some may benefit, some may not; Regardless I think good posture is good for a whole variety of reasons, and should be included as a good topic in 'complimentary methods.'

[AlkalineWater7]

What if, and I am probably stretching here, the reason the Bates Method worked better in the 1920s is because people had better posture then compared to now?

I searched the entire Better Eyesight Magazine, and this is all that I found on what Bates had to say about posture and eyesight:

From "A Lesson From The Greeks" in June 1920:


From "Eye Strain While Sleeping" in February 1923:


From "Getting Cured Of Glaucoma" in December 1920:


I have spent a lot of time researching posture, and my method of choice is the Egoscue Method, developed by Pete Egoscue. I actually find the Egoscue Method to be very similar to the Bates Method.

The Egoscue Method is unique in that it does not recommend you stand up straight while standing or sitting at your desk. In fact, Egoscue says it is impossible to force yourself in to correct posture.

Egoscue says that our posture is so bad these days because we do not perform daily motions that are specific to keeping our posture aligned. He is talking about things like bearing weight above our heads, twisting from side to side, etc.

I want to restate the last point with a side by side:

Bates Method: William Bates says that imperfect vision can sometimes be temporarily improved by effort (example: squinting), but you wont be able to improve it to normal, and this is never sufficient for a complete cure.

Egoscue Method: Pete Egoscue says that imperfect posture can sometimes be temporarily improved by effort (example: standing up straight on the balls of your feet), but you wont be able to improve it to normal, and this is never sufficient for a complete cure.

Egoscue says that posture has been getting worse ever since the industrial revolution, but in the 1980s it took an even greater turn for the worse. He noticed in the 1980s that even young children were getting bad posture, which he had never seen before. In the 1920s it seems that some people had posture problems, but it was nothing compared to today. It is very likely that over 50% of people had good posture in the 1920s, but today Egoscue says only 1% of people have good posture. All of this is due to civilization requiring less and less motion that keeps our posture aligned. And it is not any kind of motion. The motion has to be the specific motion that keeps us aligned. Most champion athletes have bad posture, even though they get plenty of motion. But they don't get the correct kind of motion that keeps their posture aligned. More side by sides:

Bates Method: Bates says that people with perfect eyesight are practicing good vision habits all the time.

Egoscue Method: Egoscue says that people with perfect posture have perfect posture all the time, whether they are standing, sitting, swimming, or sleeping. They don't need to force it and their body is always relaxed by it.

Bates Method: Bates says the reason we have imperfect sight is because we use our eyes incorrectly.

Egoscue Method: Egoscue says the reason we have imperfect posture is because we move our body incorrectly.

Primitive people (example: Native Americans) all have perfect posture and eyesight.

People's posture in the 1920s was much, much better than people's posture today. Many or most people had perfect posture, and those who had posture problems had minor ones compared to today. Maybe this is why good posture was not emphasized so much by Bates. Maybe the ones who were cured very quickly had perfect posture, while those who were cured very slowly or not completely had minor posture problems.

Egoscue believes good vision is dependent on good posture, and people he has helped have reported vision improvements. He also believes total mental relaxation is dependent on good posture. He wrote an entire book on curing mental strain through his method. He found that people who had certain personalities (example: pessimists) shared the same kind bad posture, and that when he helped them fix the bad posture, their personality completely changed.

According to Egoscue's book, I am "Condition 3," which he describes as the worst of all the bad postures. It may take many months of daily exercises (the exercises take about 1 hour to complete) before I begin to even see changes, let alone completely cure it.

Stand in front of a mirror and relax your body. Move around a bit to let your limbs go where they want to go. Do not force yourself to stand in any way. Just stand naturally. If your posture is not like described, you have bad posture:

-Shoulders, hips, knees level with each other. No drooping shoulders or hips.
-Ankles directly below knees, knees directly below hips, hips directly below shoulders (many people have wider shoulders than hips, so in this case the shoulders should be exactly centered above the hips)
-Each foot should point exactly to it's 12o'clock. Straight ahead, not turned out at all. Knees point exactly at 12o'clock too.
-Your palms should be facing each other, so that you can only see your index finger and thumb. If your hands are turned so that you can see multiple fingers or the back of your hands, you are Condition 3 like me.
-Weight should be on the balls of your feet
-If you turn to the side, your ankles should be directly under your knees, your knees should be directly under your hips, your hips should be directly under your shoulders, and the center of your head should be directly above your shoulders. No foreward head.

If you want to learn more about perfect posture and how to improve it, I recommend The Egoscue Method of Health Through Motion by Pete Egoscue. However, before you can begin with fixing your posture, you must eliminate any chronic pains you have. So if you have chronic pain, first get Pain Free by Pete Egoscue. But if you overall feel relatively pain free, I recommend the first book. The first book also has advice on how to eliminate chronic pain first, but Pain Free is more specific. The entire book is focused on pain symptoms all over the body.

(Sorry for not providing direct links above. I don't want to risk anyone thinking I am trying to make money with affiliated links.)

So my theory is:

Perfecting our posture is not sufficient for perfecting our eyesight by itself, but it is a requirement before improving and perfecting our vision with the Bates Method.

Makes sense to me. If strain lowers vision, and strain is produced from poor posture, it stands to reason that improving your posture and untying knots of tension in your body will somewhat improve your vision.

As a complimentary method, this conversation would be better to carry on in the "complimentary methods" forum. While not doubt helpful, perfect posture is not the sole answer to vision problems. Many people have perfect or near perfect posture and still have mental strain, bad visual habits, and refractive errors.

I never claimed that perfect posture is the sole answer to vision problems. I just said that it would be a good idea to improve your posture to reduce tension and strain in the body. Note that I said improving posture will "somewhat" improve vision, not "completely" improve vision or eradicate refractive errors altogether. I can attest to this due to the fact that I've had first-hand experience with better posture yielding slightly better visual acuity. I acknowledge that what works for me does not necessarily work for someone else. The post that I commented on even acknowledges that "Perfecting our posture is not sufficient for perfecting our eyesight by itself."

Neither has it been proven it's a 'requirement' or prerequisite for improving vision. That's quite speculative, lacks any significant data / research. Some may benefit, some may not; Regardless I think good posture is good for a whole variety of reasons, and should be included as a good topic in 'complimentary methods.'

Remember that I didn't start this post. I just merely commented on some ideas the author of this post had. Nothing wrong with that. Sheesh, some people these days. Well, I'm done here. Nothing left to discuss.

[arocarty]

Makes sense to me. If strain lowers vision, and strain is produced from poor posture, it stands to reason that improving your posture and untying knots of tension in your body will somewhat improve your vision.

As a complimentary method, this conversation would be better to carry on in the "complimentary methods" forum. While not doubt helpful, perfect posture is not the sole answer to vision problems. Many people have perfect or near perfect posture and still have mental strain, bad visual habits, and refractive errors.

I never claimed that perfect posture is the sole answer to vision problems. I just said that it would be a good idea to improve your posture to reduce tension and strain in the body. Note that I said improving posture will "somewhat" improve vision, not "completely" improve vision or eradicate refractive errors altogether. I can attest to this due to the fact that I've had first-hand experience with better posture yielding slightly better visual acuity. I acknowledge that what works for me does not necessarily work for someone else. The post that I commented on even acknowledges that "Perfecting our posture is not sufficient for perfecting our eyesight by itself."

Neither has it been proven it's a 'requirement' or prerequisite for improving vision. That's quite speculative, lacks any significant data / research. Some may benefit, some may not; Regardless I think good posture is good for a whole variety of reasons, and should be included as a good topic in 'complimentary methods.'

Remember that I didn't start this post. I just merely commented on some ideas the author of this post had. Nothing wrong with that. Sheesh, some people these days. Well, I'm done here. Nothing left to discuss.

There's nothing unreasonable about asking that a topic on a complimentary thing be carried on in the "Complimentary Methods" section, regardless of who started it, that's what it was created for. It was you who resurrected a dead post from Mar 2014.

[AlkalineWater7]

As a complimentary method, this conversation would be better to carry on in the "complimentary methods" forum. While not doubt helpful, perfect posture is not the sole answer to vision problems. Many people have perfect or near perfect posture and still have mental strain, bad visual habits, and refractive errors.

I never claimed that perfect posture is the sole answer to vision problems. I just said that it would be a good idea to improve your posture to reduce tension and strain in the body. Note that I said improving posture will "somewhat" improve vision, not "completely" improve vision or eradicate refractive errors altogether. I can attest to this due to the fact that I've had first-hand experience with better posture yielding slightly better visual acuity. I acknowledge that what works for me does not necessarily work for someone else. The post that I commented on even acknowledges that "Perfecting our posture is not sufficient for perfecting our eyesight by itself."

Neither has it been proven it's a 'requirement' or prerequisite for improving vision. That's quite speculative, lacks any significant data / research. Some may benefit, some may not; Regardless I think good posture is good for a whole variety of reasons, and should be included as a good topic in 'complimentary methods.'

Remember that I didn't start this post. I just merely commented on some ideas the author of this post had. Nothing wrong with that. Sheesh, some people these days. Well, I'm done here. Nothing left to discuss.

There's nothing unreasonable about asking that a topic on a complimentary thing be carried on in the "Complimentary Methods" section, regardless of who started it, that's what it was created for. It was you who resurrected a dead post from Mar 2014.

So every time I resurrect a "dead" post about posture, I should post it in "Complementary Methods". Yeah, Yeah, I get it already. Will do next time. Sheesh, some people these days.