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Perfect imagination - question - Sappheir - 01-25-2010
Recently, I've read in one of Dr. Bates' articles about the power of imagination. That if regard something holding a perfect memory of some color or any other thing (like a letter 'o' with center whiter than anything else), my vision will improve. But whilst trying to do this, I just find myself straining, because I have a feeling that my mind and eyes are engaged in totally different things.
I have very small myopia ( -1 or 0.75 in one eye and about -1.75 in the other one) if that changes anything.
PS I've forgotten to add it earlier. However, if I look at some letters, memorize them, palm and think about them (swinging, central fixation and stuff), i DO see better. Yesterday I could read a word from 2 meters bigger distance than before doing that. Could someone explain it to me?
Sorry for any grammar or spelling mistakes, I'm still learning English
Re: Perfect imagination - question - Ares - 01-25-2010
the degree of myopia seems to have little to do with that. I used to have around -13 and -12 and now i am wearing -8's. But i cant see the Black Darkness or imagine properly.
Some times, it seems impossible to throw the strain away. Only Fine Print and PC Games are helping me much.
The only times i remember i was relaxed and i was seeing the Total Black, was when i was recovering from bad illness...
Trying to focus the mind and gently push any thought out remains a good way, along with meditation and such.
Re: Perfect imagination - question - JMartinC4 - 01-25-2010
Cut .75 inch deep notches of 15deg, 30deg, and 45deg into a 16oz styrofoam cup, cutting across the diameter. Add an inch of water for ballast. Insert an unlabeled CD, shiny surface up, into the notches. Position it so that the overhead or surounding light source is reflected into it and bounced back at your face/eyes. On the opposite wall post a Snellen chart on top of a world map (e.g., Hammond or National Geographic) or other material with small print. Now palm (Bates Method) for five minutes. When you look up, maintain your postion with the light reflected across your eyes/face, and swing/shift (Bates Method) while looking at the chart/map. Repeat. Make a second device and position the two of them at left and right. Repeat the Bates methods. This will gradually realign your visual positioning (similar to the way braces or Invisalign realign teeth) and also train you to position yourself within ambient glare points, and reduce your nearsightedness, helping you develop clearer normal vision. For another exercise, stand in front of a window facing a mirror, hold the styrofoam cup(s) in your outstretched arm/hand(s) so that the light is reflected back at your eyes/face. Now swing/shift in various ways (Dance!) so that while you move, the reflected light is kept on your eyes/face. Look into the distance. Realign your vision. Use head roll/wobble to adjust for astigmatism. You are relearning to see into the distance.
Sappheir Wrote:Recently, I've read in one of Dr. Bates' articles about the power of imagination. That if regard something holding a perfect memory of some color or any other thing (like a letter 'o' with center whiter than anything else), my vision will improve. But whilst trying to do this, I just find myself straining, because I have a feeling that my mind and eyes are engaged in totally different things.
I have very small myopia ( -1 or 0.75 in one eye and about -1.75 in the other one) if that changes anything.
PS I've forgotten to add it earlier. However, if I look at some letters, memorize them, palm and think about them (swinging, central fixation and stuff), i DO see better. Yesterday I could read a word from 2 meters bigger distance than before doing that. Could someone explain it to me?
Sorry for any grammar or spelling mistakes, I'm still learning English
Re: Perfect imagination - question - Sappheir - 01-26-2010
I really don't understand what I am to do with this cup. It's really confusing. Isn't there anything easier that you've tried and what is Dr. Bates' records?
Re: Perfect imagination - question - JMartinC4 - 01-26-2010
You don't have to do hardly anything other than position them on the desk. I have some photos of the setup but can't post them just yet. I use the cups/cds while practicing Bates Methods. Those methods can be found at iblindness.org
8) Sappheir Wrote:I really don't understand what I am to do with this cup. It's really confusing. Isn't there anything easier that you've tried and what is Dr. Bates' records?
Re: Perfect imagination - question - David - 01-26-2010
JMartin - Maybe it would be better to start a new thread about that instead of copying and pasting it as a reply in multiple threads where it doesn't seem to be on topic?
Dave
Re: Perfect imagination - question - Sappheir - 01-26-2010
I agree with David, I just didn't understand anything from your description so I thought it is somewhat connected with my problem.
David, maybe you could answer my question? You seem to have huge knowledge on improving eyesight and it would help me a lot.
Re: Perfect imagination - question - JMartinC4 - 01-26-2010
Here is how I think it is connected with your question regarding using a 'perfect' memory of something as an aid to improved vision:
The CD-in-a-cup positioned to reflect/'flash' a nearby/overhead light source back at your eyes/face becomes a memory so that when you go anywhere else you will begin to notice the naturally occuring points of glare, and learn to use them peripherally to naturally reposition your eyes/face/head/neck/shoulders/torso/hips/legs/feet for optimal distance vision, still using the Bates Methods of relaxed shifting/sketching/blinking, etc.
For instance, I just went outside and took a walk and noticed points of glare/reflection on the street signs which after adjusting my posture and shifting/sketching, stimulated better vision. When I came back in, I went into the kitchen and noticed the glarepoints on the pushpins of a bulletin board, and shifting/sketching then stimulated better vision. I also noticed that a key I was holding was reflecting the overhead light.
I think this biofeedback visual training device is a great supplement to Bates Methodolgy, and would work for other people, and I would like them to at least try it and give me some feedback. Maybe it doesn't work for anyone but me. It is somewhat related to the Ortho-K I read about on this forum and a link, but that method mostly provides only a temporary effect, probably because, like lenses, it only works on the eyeballs and does nothing for the positioning of the rest of the body and the mind. Or maybe it will only work for people like me - 50+, never had clear vision, -2.25 and -1.25 myopic, astigmatic, varied work background, well-traveled, happy and fulfilled socially but needing creative outlets, etcetera...
Sappheir Wrote:I agree with David, I just didn't understand anything from your description so I thought it is somewhat connected with my problem.
David, maybe you could answer my question? You seem to have huge knowledge on improving eyesight and it would help me a lot.
Re: Perfect imagination - question - David - 01-27-2010
Sappheir Wrote:I agree with David, I just didn't understand anything from your description so I thought it is somewhat connected with my problem.
David, maybe you could answer my question? You seem to have huge knowledge on improving eyesight and it would help me a lot.
From what you described in the first post, it sounds like you're doing something that is helping. I'm confused by your question, because you first seem to say that you only strain when you do it, then you describe doing it with benefit.
Dave
Re: Perfect imagination - question - Sappheir - 01-27-2010
This does help, but I've read that Dr. Bates suggested carrying a memory of something anywhere I go. When I try doing this (like, recalling the color of the shy) and look at some letters, they get a bit more blurred. I have to remember them and imagine I see them better to be able to read them better. I was simply curious why good memory of something doesn't help me in general. According to what Dr. Bates taught, it should.
Re: Perfect imagination - question - JMartinC4 - 01-28-2010
Sappheir - here are some photos of my biofeedback US Vsual Training Device(s). these links are good for four (4) days:
You have been issued the following ticket: 'Ticket for /cookj/USVisualTrainingBiofeedbackDev7.jpg 2010-1-28' on /cookj/USVisualTrainingBiofeedbackDev7.jpg
Use the following link to access the resource using this ticket:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://gushare.georgetown.edu/xythoswf">https://gushare.georgetown.edu/xythoswf</a><!-- m --> ... t_5BrrM1SH Email Link
You have been issued the following ticket: 'Ticket for /cookj/USVisualTrainingBiofeedbackDev8.jpg 2010-1-28' on /cookj/USVisualTrainingBiofeedbackDev8.jpg
Use the following link to access the resource using this ticket:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://gushare.georgetown.edu/xythoswf">https://gushare.georgetown.edu/xythoswf</a><!-- m --> ... t_jeKo1ZBu Email Link
Sappheir Wrote:I really don't understand what I am to do with this cup. It's really confusing. Isn't there anything easier that you've tried and what is Dr. Bates' records?
Re: Perfect imagination - question - David - 01-28-2010
JMartinC4 Wrote:Sappheir - here are some photos of my biofeedback US Vsual Training Device(s). these links are good for four (4) days:
You have been issued the following ticket: 'Ticket for /cookj/USVisualTrainingBiofeedbackDev7.jpg 2010-1-28' on /cookj/USVisualTrainingBiofeedbackDev7.jpg
Use the following link to access the resource using this ticket:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://gushare.georgetown.edu/xythoswf">https://gushare.georgetown.edu/xythoswf</a><!-- m --> ... t_5BrrM1SH Email Link
You have been issued the following ticket: 'Ticket for /cookj/USVisualTrainingBiofeedbackDev8.jpg 2010-1-28' on /cookj/USVisualTrainingBiofeedbackDev8.jpg
Use the following link to access the resource using this ticket:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://gushare.georgetown.edu/xythoswf">https://gushare.georgetown.edu/xythoswf</a><!-- m --> ... t_jeKo1ZBu Email Link
JMartin, that's the second time you've copied and pasted the same thing in three or four different threads at once. Don't you think that's abusing the forum?
Dave
Re: Perfect imagination - question - sorrisiblue - 01-29-2010
Hi Sappheir, I think I understand your question, this is something I recently read about in Dr. Bates's 1921 article on memory. What you described as your problem and what you have success with are actually two different things. I'll try to explain:
your success: "if I look at some letters, memorize them, palm and think about them (swinging, central fixation and stuff), i DO see better"
You are having success looking at a letter, closing your eyes, and looking at it again (improved) because you are using your imagination to improve your memory of what you saw the first time. When you look at the letter the second time, you are relaxed by the memory and are imagining it while looking at it again, which improves the sight of it. If you want to have a similar success with this method on other objects, then you will need to remember a color that is the same as what you're going to look at. Then imagine what you are looking at is just as vivid as the color that you remember. In this way, you are comparing what you see and imagine to your memory and it will be relaxing, just like when you use the chart.
The problem you are having is different: "But whilst trying to do this, I just find myself straining, because I have a feeling that my mind and eyes are engaged in totally different things. " In this example I guess you are trying to remember one thing and look at something different. There is subtle difference between this and what Dr. Bates intended you to do.
You are not having success by remembering something and then imagining it while looking at _other_ objects. This is because you are trying to imagine something that is not in front of you. Exactly as you described, it is a strain to visualize something different than what you are seeing. There is a subtle difference between remembering something (keeping it in your mind) and imagining it (in a way, looking for it in what you see). You also said that you are 'trying' to use your memory in these other cases. Remember, it cannot be forced. The memory must be effortless. Think of it like remembering a part of a song. You don't hear the song, but you can still play it in your memory. The same is true of a memory, you can remember it in your head, but you don't 'try' to see it.
What Dr. Bates meant about keeping something in your memory, even while looking at different things, is clarified in his 1921 memory article. In this example, a small black period is what is remembered:
"Some patients retard their recovery by decorating the scenery with periods as they go about during the day, instead of simply remembering a period in their minds. This does them no good, but is, on the contrary, a cause of strain. The period can be imagined perfectly and with benefit as forming part of a black letter on the test card, because this merely means imagining that one sees one part of the black letter best, as the normal eye sees it; but it cannot be imagined perfectly on any surface which is not black, and to attempt to imagine it on such surfaces defeats the end in view."
You are doing the same, by remembering a letter and imagining it perfectly and then looking at the letter, your vision is improved. But, when you remember a letter or anything else, and project that on other objects, you are causing a strain as you noticed. If you find that you have difficulty keeping your memory in your mind and not projecting it, then use the memory of a sound or smell instead. The memory you keep with you does not have to be a visual memory. The practice of memory/imagination that benefits you on the chart is still useful, and you continue gaining permanent benefit with that if you do it daily. Eventually your eyes will subconsciously use what you learn on the chart on everyday objects.
Keeping that above paragraph in mind, here are two other paragraphs from that article that may help you:
"When the mind is able to remember perfectly any phenomenon of the senses, it is always perfectly relaxed. The sight is normal if the eyes are open, and when they are closed and covered so as to exclude all light one sees a perfectly black field, that is, nothing at all. If one can remember the ticking of a watch, or an odor, or a taste, one's mind is completely at rest, and one will see a perfect black when one's eyes are closed and covered. If one's memory of a sensation of touch could be equal to the reality, one would see nothing but black when the light was excluded from the eyes. If one were to remember a bar of music perfectly when one's eyes were closed and covered, one would see nothing but black. But in the case of any of these phenomena it is not easy to test the correctness of the memory, and the same is true of colors other than black. All other colors, including white, are altered by the amount of light to which they are exposed, and are seldom seen as perfectly as it is possible for the normal eye to see them. When the sight is normal, black is just as black in a dim light as in a bright one. It is also just as black at the distance as at the nearpoint, while a small area is just as black as a larger one, and, in fact, appears to be blacker. Black is, moreover, more readily available than any other color. There is nothing blacker than printer's ink, and that is practically ubiquitous. By means of the memory of black, therefore, it is possible to measure accurately one's own relaxation. If the color is remembered perfectly, one is absolutely relaxed. If it is remembered almost perfectly, one's relaxation is almost perfect. If it cannot be remembered at all, one has very little or no relaxation."
"In order that patients under treatment for the cure of functional eye troubles may recognize and avoid the conditions that produce strain, they are advised, whatever other method of improving their sight they may be using, to carry with them always the memory of a small area of black, such as a period. Some patients have obtained a complete cure in a very short time by this means alone. One advantage of the method is that it does not require a test card or any other equipment. At any hour of the day or night, whatever the patient may be doing, he can always place himself in a condition favorable to the perfect memory of a black period."
best,
Sorrisi
Re: Perfect imagination - question - JMartinC4 - 01-29-2010
Sorry. It was late and a few people had requested to see an example of the 'device' and I thought this was the easiest response to them, but I agree not to copy and paste. On a related note, I had to delete the photo links because of a bad dream and a realization that my employer was identified in the links which they may not approve of. So, I would like to know another way to post .jpeg photos for review on this forum?
David Wrote:JMartinC4 Wrote:Sappheir - here are some photos of my biofeedback US Vsual Training Device(s). these links are good for four (4) days:
You have been issued the following ticket: 'Ticket for /cookj/USVisualTrainingBiofeedbackDev7.jpg 2010-1-28' on /cookj/USVisualTrainingBiofeedbackDev7.jpg
Use the following link to access the resource using this ticket:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://gushare.georgetown.edu/xythoswf">https://gushare.georgetown.edu/xythoswf</a><!-- m --> ... t_5BrrM1SH Email Link
You have been issued the following ticket: 'Ticket for /cookj/USVisualTrainingBiofeedbackDev8.jpg 2010-1-28' on /cookj/USVisualTrainingBiofeedbackDev8.jpg
Use the following link to access the resource using this ticket:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://gushare.georgetown.edu/xythoswf">https://gushare.georgetown.edu/xythoswf</a><!-- m --> ... t_jeKo1ZBu Email Link
JMartin, that's the second time you've copied and pasted the same thing in three or four different threads at once. Don't you think that's abusing the forum?
Dave
Re: Perfect imagination - question - Sappheir - 01-31-2010
Dear Sorrisi, what you wrote really cleared much. Thank you a lot for your explanation.
Unluckily, I can't read Snellen chart every day as you suggested because my father (I'm not adult yet) who wears quite strong glasses is assured that they are the best thing that has ever happened to him. In his opinion if there is anything protecting my eyesight, these are glasses. He bases his statements on optometrists' opinions. Thus, I have to pretend that I wear glasses (which I'm not!) and can't walk freely without them. However, whenever I don't have to wear them for a longer period (on a school trpi or such) my eyesight gets really really good, I see everything I want. That's why I can't improve as quickly as I'd like. In my glasses I see 20/20 and I feel my eyes get tensed. I even noticed that when normally I blink softly, when I put on these stupid glasses, I can't even do THIS properly. It's sick.
Sorry for this off-topic, just wanted to tell you why my improvement is so slow. It's like this because at my house it is kind of illegal.
Greets,
Sappheir