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notes on looking at details and changing - Printable Version
Eyesight Improvement Forum
notes on looking at details and changing - Printable Version

+- Eyesight Improvement Forum (https://www.iblindness.org/forum)
+-- Forum: General Discussion (https://www.iblindness.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: David's method (https://www.iblindness.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Thread: notes on looking at details and changing (/showthread.php?tid=1571)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - sean - 10-22-2010

Dave

When I read your earlier post yesterday I was struck by the last sentence:

"... just start considering the blur always as individual details... all perfectly focused and all there, but scattered."

And I note that you elaborated on it in your reply to Pikachu. I find the Thinking of a Point exercise in the Exercise section fits in with this very nicely.

Just thinking about the incident the other day I described earlier where I was looking at the car registration (licence) plate and could see the individual numbers while the surrounding ones were blurry (in fact, individual parts of a number while the rest of the number was unclear), the same way Pikachu said he saw the tree. I was talking to my young son and said I'd read it out for him and he told me I had it but the 8 was a 3. I then looked at the 8 and, looking at the different parts, could see he was right. I have noticed that on a couple of other occasions too, I'd look at something unclear and kind of make a guess and it would clear a bit. I have an idea this is the way I used to see back in the day before the glasses thing happened. (Up to now I don't think I have been making (risking?) the guess - ok I haven't been consciously straining but I have been content just not to see, I suppose.) I think my wife, who has excellent distance vision does this, and she sometimes guesses wrong: that's a policeman further up the road (a looong way up the road) but it turns out just to be a workman with a similar high-visibility jacket and there was no need to hit the brakes.

I haven't done this much yet, just short periods, mainly in the evening, but I do do it all the same. I find it works with tv if the picture is somewhat static, without too many cuts in the shots, and was watching a studio discussion last night. I wasn't really listening much because this was one of the best periods of sustained improved vision I've had so far. I was in the right frame of mind because I gave it priority over something else I felt I 'should' be doing. It can take a while to get going but once the clear vision kicks in you just need to make sure you don't stop looking for detail. So far so good.

I'm away for a few days and I'll pick up this thread again on my return.


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - Pikachu - 10-23-2010

@David: Thanks. I guess I'm on the right track then Smile. What I mean by it being more difficult at a distance is that first of all, the blur is, well, blurrier and even when I tell myself to focus on individual points on it, sometimes these points look more like small circles, rather than points. Also, I find that I often get distracted by how many "blurry points" there are on far-off objects. It's more difficult to focus on just one. I suppose that if I stuck with it (and I'm still giving it a try), I might get better at it.

I have this weird way of going about this detail thing. I sort of imagine a "forcefield" around the point I want. Everything outside the forcefield is unclear. Everything in it is clear. If I change the size of the forcefield so that it gets very small, I can focus a whole lot better. I don't know if this can help anyone, but it works for me!


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - Nancy - 10-23-2010

Sean, the same sentence from Dave's post that you quoted struck me too (not blur, but scattered details). I kept this in mind walking outside today looking at the vivid autumn colors. I had some longer than usual flashes of extremely clear vision. When I got a flash I was aware of the bulls-eye center of clarity and felt like there was an extra intensity to it, maybe like Pikachu's force field. However I felt like the intensity wasn't in that point or in my eyes/brain, but rather between us. It was like I had a stronger connection to that point than to anything else in my visual field. When i shifted my gaze I could feel the connection vector moving with my gaze. This feels like more than mere attention (unless I've been doing visual "attention" wrong all along!), more like a beam of energy, like weak slow lightning. Is anyone else experiencing it like this?


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - Pikachu - 10-23-2010

@Nancy: Yeah, it's sort of like that. When I'm doing it right (or when I think I'm doing it right!), I feel outside that point is unimportant and sort of "forget" that they're there. I haven't had much luck with moving that gaze though. I'm still trying to get the movement part down. For some reason, everything sort of reverts when I move my eyes. Sad


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - David - 10-23-2010

sean Wrote:I haven't done this much yet, just short periods, mainly in the evening, but I do do it all the same. I find it works with tv if the picture is somewhat static, without too many cuts in the shots, and was watching a studio discussion last night. I wasn't really listening much because this was one of the best periods of sustained improved vision I've had so far. I was in the right frame of mind because I gave it priority over something else I felt I 'should' be doing. It can take a while to get going but once the clear vision kicks in you just need to make sure you don't stop looking for detail. So far so good.

I agree, a static picture is best to work with. The way TV shows nowadays cut to a new shot every few seconds makes for a too quickly changing scene for you to keep up with until your vision is better/faster.

And yes, it will take a few minutes each time at first to realize some effect, maybe longer. You just keep at it, and don't interrupt yourself except maybe to look away occasionally. It needs you to be 100% directed at it for a long enough period of time, thinking of nothing else, and that's when things get done.

So anyway, it looks like a few folks are getting the idea. So I think that means I can't have totally flipped my lid.


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - hammer - 10-24-2010

Nancy Wrote:Sean, the same sentence from Dave's post that you quoted struck me too (not blur, but scattered details). I kept this in mind walking outside today looking at the vivid autumn colors. I had some longer than usual flashes of extremely clear vision. When I got a flash I was aware of the bulls-eye center of clarity and felt like there was an extra intensity to it, maybe like Pikachu's force field. However I felt like the intensity wasn't in that point or in my eyes/brain, but rather between us. It was like I had a stronger connection to that point than to anything else in my visual field. When i shifted my gaze I could feel the connection vector moving with my gaze. This feels like more than mere attention (unless I've been doing visual "attention" wrong all along!), more like a beam of energy, like weak slow lightning. Is anyone else experiencing it like this?

Nancy: Yes, I have. Maybe it is because your mind tries to synchronise your eyes onto the center point in a 3-dimensional context, and to manage to do this the sharpness of the "connection vector" relative the blurry peripheral is compared in some way. So if the peripheral was sharp then your mind wouln't succeed to synchronize both your eyes on the very same center point, because the mind wouldn't be able to locate the center point from both eyes. Now once the vision becomes synchronized and everything is locked then the peripheral would clear up as well, thus this is a second step in the synchronisaton process that you (including me also) maybe have not reached yet, at least this is my logic.


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - sean - 11-02-2010

Hi Dave

No, you haven't flipped! I was doing this again last night watching tv and it cleared my vision a lot. What I notice is that it clears it in a more lasting kind of way in that the clarity lasts longer. It feels like a leap of faith each time - you just look for the dtail and wait and hope, but it always seems to deliver the goods to some degree or another.

One thing I'm not at all sure about is the 'way' you say you look at the detail (back to Bates' looking at the dark spots in the picture and imagining them as caves with people moving about in them). At present I'm not aware I'm looking in any special way. I know for certain I'm not straining but I'm really just looking. Now, from time to time I consciously 'imagine' as in Bates' example and that seems to get things moving but I can't really say yet at this stage. As I've been doing a lot of imagination work it could be that that is rubbing off on me somehow habit-wise. But I got the impression from you earlier that there was some sort of knack involved. Now, I'm happy with my progress so far and I'll see where that takes me, but this question has been at the back of my mind from the start (ie since you raised it). So it's not that I need some kind of answer to it, or direction, but on the other hand if there was one that would be just fine too! Smile


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - sean - 11-03-2010

Dave

I since read the site update article about this which seems to be a very good summary.

The other thing I was wondering about, and it's more this than the question I posed in my last post, which is: what kind of thing are you expected to be learning when you do this? I'm not aware that I'm learning anything, just I focus on detail and eventually the vision improves, and this is accompanied by a hope that this will get quicker over time. But I don't notice anything about the way I blink, or posture or anything else like that. Is it something in the mind, thought processes or something, or a general attentiveness, that you mean?


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - Pikachu - 11-03-2010

@sean: I think that the detail-searching is something that people with normal vision do on their own, so I guess it's all about establishing a good habit.


When I do this detail-searching thing, I sort of see what I'm looking at as "pixels". If I look at it this way, I want the pixels to be as small as possible, so as to increase the "resolution" of the image. Is this analogy correct? If not, please correct me!


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - David - 11-03-2010

sean Wrote:The other thing I was wondering about, and it's more this than the question I posed in my last post, which is: what kind of thing are you expected to be learning when you do this? I'm not aware that I'm learning anything, just I focus on detail and eventually the vision improves, and this is accompanied by a hope that this will get quicker over time. But I don't notice anything about the way I blink, or posture or anything else like that. Is it something in the mind, thought processes or something, or a general attentiveness, that you mean?

Other approaches help you do things or learn exercises that will help your vision or relax your eyes a little or teach you ideas that you can put into practice somehow... With this, I mean it to be a completely direct approach, in that you're practicing exactly what you need to do all the time to see, so it can be applied directly and without exception to anything you look at by simply continuing to follow the instructions again once you've got it working somewhat while sitting down at home in front of the chart. So if I had to summarize, I'd say you're learning how to look at smaller things.


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - David - 11-03-2010

Pikachu Wrote:@sean: I think that the detail-searching is something that people with normal vision do on their own, so I guess it's all about establishing a good habit.


When I do this detail-searching thing, I sort of see what I'm looking at as "pixels". If I look at it this way, I want the pixels to be as small as possible, so as to increase the "resolution" of the image. Is this analogy correct? If not, please correct me!

Yeah, I think that's a good analogy! I don't see anything wrong with thinking of it in that way.

Dave


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - Pikachu - 11-03-2010

Thanks, David!

I have a few questions: When I'm looking for details, is it normal for what I am looking at to move around, sort of like it's "floating"? When this happens, I find it more difficult to keep looking for smaller details within the detail that I am already looking at. In fact, it's hard to even keep my eyes on the same area since it moves around so much! Should I try to stay in the general area that I was originally looking at or is it better just to "let it be" and look for another detail?


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - David - 11-04-2010

Pikachu Wrote:Thanks, David!

I have a few questions: When I'm looking for details, is it normal for what I am looking at to move around, sort of like it's "floating"? When this happens, I find it more difficult to keep looking for smaller details within the detail that I am already looking at. In fact, it's hard to even keep my eyes on the same area since it moves around so much! Should I try to stay in the general area that I was originally looking at or is it better just to "let it be" and look for another detail?

Yes, when the point starts floating/moving away when you try to look directly at it, that's perfect. Keep looking for it for a while just as you are. If you start it again and it doesn't appear to move this time, just look for (and imagining what it would be, since you can't see it yet) a smaller piece of it until get to the right size where the point keeps floating out of the way.


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - Pikachu - 11-04-2010

I have a little feedback after trying this stuff for about 2 hours today (I was supposed to be watching a movie in class, but I thought the time was better spent on helping my eyes):

The room was fairly dark, and I couldn't really see what I was looking at, but it didn't seem to matter. I just sort of let my eyes go where they wanted to (but sort of started over when they went too far) and it seemed to be pretty relaxing. However, I found it difficult to focus at times and sort of broke my concentration many times. I also noticed that occasionally, my eyes would slightly cross and would continue until they were completely crossed. I've generally tried to ignore this and let it happen and when the crossing gets to the point where it bothers me, I uncross and start over. Is this normal or is there something I'm doing wrong? Afterwards, I did a little bit of sunning (like five minutes) and felt really great, which, I suspect, came mainly from the time I spent looking for details.

It might seem weird that I did it in the dark, but when I thought about it later, I realized something: This is about HOW you use your eyes to see, not WHAT you see. Therefore, doesn't it follow that what you are looking at is immaterial so long as you are using your eyes properly? In that sense, isn't it more about imagining the small details you can't see? If I'm not mistaken, "normal" eyes should naturally "fill in" the parts of the image that you don't focus on; so there's a bit of imagination to that then, isn't there? Maybe I'm totally crazy, but when I thought it over, it sounded perfectly logical to me. What do you guys think?


Re: notes on looking at details and changing - sean - 11-05-2010

Pikachu, 2 hours sounds great. In your earlier post you mentioned how the tiny details kept moving, or 'floating'. Sounds exactly like what Dave says in the 2nd paragraph of the very first post on this thread, where you have to keep searching for the detail.

I tried it this morning, early, listening to the radio on the satellite tv (daft as that seems) and I had an info. 'box' open and there was a tiny word at the very top. So after some (several) minutes it cleared suddenly and the word was 'programme'. And it looked really clear, as clear as it would have looked to me as an 8 or 9 year old, before the glasses thing started. And because it was so tiny it kept moving and I had to keep looking for it. As I say, the word was clear, but i wasn't sure if it said 'programme' or 'program'. So I had to move along the word, tiny though it was, so I must have just been looking at one letter (it was program by the way which I think is the American spelling). I mean, I had started off looking for one letter in the word-like blur, a blur that had to contain a word, for what else would it contain on a programme information 'dialogue box'? But when it cleared the whole word cleared, but in reality I had to move carefully along the word to see how it was spelt. *And because it was so small and so far away it kept coming and going.) For those following this thread, you can imagine the relief this was: I wanted it to be clear, of course, but not in a way that it was all equally clear at the same time. Doh!

I was looking at in the same way school friends did when we were 9 or 10 and we'd be waiting for a bus and they'd be 'staring' into the distance to see what number it was (not really staring of course) and someone would say 161 or 124 - it had to be one or the other. And I'd leave them at it because I couldn't read it until it was less than 80 yards away or so - I'd obviously started losing the 'searching' habit even then. I could see they used it in that situation, but I suppose they must have been using it the rest of the time too even if not so obviously.