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+--- Thread: new article / site update (/showthread.php?tid=1647)
Re: new article / site update - fuoco - 11-30-2010
I'm also of the ones who feel using my eyes correctly make me relaxed - and not only the eyes but other parts of the body, and somehow also the mind itself goes into a more calm and focused feeling.
I wanted to ask something specific, do you think one should do this always with both eyes together, or would you suggest covering one eye each time with the palm and doing it only with the other one?
I've seen Bates talk about chart work for children, where they are just expected to read the chart every day with each eye separately.
Re: new article / site update - David - 12-04-2010
Updated the article today.
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- Modified the whole looking for details procedure to be more oriented towards the inescapable blur that people with very blurry vision see, and actually using the blur itself to their advantage. I think this will avoid the problem of people struggling to find details, because it's more focused on imagining them and perceiving things differently, so people always have something to do and don't need to feel held up from getting anywhere due to the large amount of blur. And I think the movement issue is taken care of better, because people (I think?) will shift enough while doing it this way. The trick here is to get people to move their eyes enough without even realizing that they're doing it.
- Added instructions for palming, breathing and blinking. I think I've gotten so used to some things like breathing and blinking that I had forgotten that people don't do them right and it needs to be gone over, or else people will simply hold their breath and not blink. And now that I think about it, I should describe blinking in more detail, but it is what it is for the moment.
- Added option to look at other things besides an eye chart. There's no sense in restricting the procedure to an eye chart if it makes people feel trapped or bored.
- Various other rewrites and new explanations
In the new instructions with imagination and perceiving smaller details, I also kind of want to add a suggestion to start out with something shiny that light is reflecting off of (but not too brightly), because there's more to work with. Such an shiny object, with the blur spraying out and being more noticeable rather than what might be a hazy blur of something else that's more difficult to work with. But I'm going to consider it a bit more, and I wanted to get this update live as it is.
So, as always, it's a draft and will certainly evolve based on feedback and ideas. I originally wanted to keep it short and simple, but that doesn't appear to be possible to do while still covering the basic things that need to be covered, but I'm still trying to avoid being too wordy.
Re: new article / site update - David - 12-04-2010
fuoco Wrote:I'm also of the ones who feel using my eyes correctly make me relaxed - and not only the eyes but other parts of the body, and somehow also the mind itself goes into a more calm and focused feeling.
I wanted to ask something specific, do you think one should do this always with both eyes together, or would you suggest covering one eye each time with the palm and doing it only with the other one?
I've seen Bates talk about chart work for children, where they are just expected to read the chart every day with each eye separately.
I would say mainly both eyes together, but each eye separately a little bit might help as well and shouldn't do any harm. The thing is, both eyes together is more natural, and people can sometimes see clearer out of an eye when used with the other eye than when used on its own, and the eye with blurrier vision might actually catch up or have flashes of clear vision even though it wasn't worked with separately.
Re: new article / site update - fuoco - 12-04-2010
Thanks for the reply David.
I'm going to read the updated article. Maybe it will help me even more. What bothers me is that I have sometimes really good feeling and sometimes really bad. Like I said the good feeling affects my whole body and also the mind, and at least I believe I see a tiny bit clearer. But the opposite is also true, on the down times, as I've mentioned often before, I always suffer from a lot of painful tension in my eyes and my neck (always together). The problem is then to find something that helps, because it feels everything I try makes it worse. Only forgetting about it is helpful - but how to forget about something that hurts you? Focusing on something else should help - for example focusing on looking for details. But in practice it's a bit more complicated.
Re: new article / site update - fuoco - 12-04-2010
I had another general question I forgot:
You don't mention anything about astigmatism in the article, even though it often accompanies myopia. Should one deal with it in any specific way, or just keep on without any special treatment for that?
Re: new article / site update - Nancy - 12-04-2010
David, thanks - this is an improvement. I particularly like that you've entitled the key section IMAGINING AND PERCEIVING DETAIL to emphasize the important role of imagination. I also appreciate the new section MISTAKES AND CONFUSION, as I have tried to force double letters to merge or otherwise tried to make the image sharper, more times than I care to admit. I'll be referring to this again for sure.
A couple of minor proofreading points (my mother was an English teacher and these just leap out at me):
In IMAGINING AND PERCEIVING DETAIL, 3rd paragraph, 2nd sentence.
Quote:You just need to continue perceiving what you're looking at smaller pixels..The word "as" should follow "at".
In COMMON SENSE - THE WHOLE PICTURE, next-to-last sentence, "time consuming" should be hyphenated.
Thanks again -- this will be a big help to me.
Re: new article / site update - Deliverance - 12-06-2010
Well.
Unfortunately this method will not works for anyone, less for those who are new to this community and ever have heard about the Bates Method, therefore they only will lower their sight trying to do this, so this will not make sense. And it's due becouse David is leaving aside some importants things about Bates, presenting the method in this way will not works as you think, hence is important to encourage the people to read original Bates' writings.
It's not the same for the most of us here, who has read the Bates' book as well all his material, then we have a solid knowledge about he is talking about.
That said, if we can make this community to go ahead and give the method known we have to work hard all together to this pull this off in another way. I think it's quite simple for everyone improve his sight as a desire of improve the sight then read Bates' book. and re-read it, persistence. Patience.
Lord.
Re: new article / site update - David - 12-06-2010
lordofthesun Wrote:Well.
Unfortunately this method will not works for anyone, less for those who are new to this community and ever have heard about the Bates Method, therefore they only will lower their sight trying to do this, so this will not make sense. And it's due becouse David is leaving aside some importants things about Bates, presenting the method in this way will not works as you think, hence is important to encourage the people to read original Bates' writings.
It's not the same for the most of us here, who has read the Bates' book as well all his material, then we have a solid knowledge about he is talking about.
That said, if we can make this community to go ahead and give the method known we have to work hard all together to this pull this off in another way. I think it's quite simple for everyone improve his sight as a desire of improve the sight then read Bates' book. and re-read it, persistence. Patience.
Lord.
Look, I know you're just a kid, but I'll ask anyway just to make a point - What is the point of coming on here and badmouthing the work I've done as a whole without even doing me the favor of being specific about your thoughts of what is misleading or could be improved?
Re: new article / site update - Pikachu - 12-06-2010
@David: I think what lordofthesun is indicating is that your method requires some grounding in some of the more traditional Bates method concepts first. That, or perhaps there is something that some people can do naturally that others can't. I know I've been riding the fence on this for a while, but I can say with a fair degree of certainty now that this method doesn't work for me, at least not right now. It seems to be okay for a while and everything goes as it should, but then staring takes over and I have a hard time reversing it since I don't have much experience with relaxation, which I am currently focusing on improving.
I understand that some of the criticism on here isn't exactly what you'd call constructive, but I think it's important to realize that not all people who criticize your work are "badmouthing" it. Sometimes, words get lost in translation. I will admit that people like Andrea Major and Oleg K. have fairly strong opinions in regards to this topic, but I wouldn't put all dissenters in the same boat. Some of us are confused; some of us are misinformed; some of us cannot express our thoughts very well. Maybe it's just me, but that last comment of yours came off as a bit harsh to me.
Re: new article / site update - Deliverance - 12-06-2010
Ok David.
I was one of those people who have been experiencing with your method since you published it for first time, and I can confirm you it works, of course it make sense, but you know we're all diferrent and not anyone will think like me. And this make sense becouse I've read Bates material and re-readed it, so my conclusions are right with what you say. It's becouse most of us can understand what you present there.
What is wrong with it and what can be improved? I'm still looking for it...how I gain more experience with it over time.
Indeed, you took my words the wrong way, my intention is not aruin your job nor offend you, if you took it in that way, my apologies. Your intentions are good. So I appreciate it.
Ah! You called me kid, well, that's is not an important factor here. If you're older than me, good for you. Bigger doesn't mean better. Any human being has the same power of knowledge, and you only have to know how to apply it.
Re: new article / site update - Nancy - 12-06-2010
I posted on my blog again about my experiences today driving with looking for details. If you don't want to read the details (ha!), I'm making some progress, accepting details I see without trying to "fix" them, still having a bit of difficulty when I can't see details at all and have to imagine them. I'm having fun with this.
Re: new article / site update - David - 12-06-2010
lordofthesun Wrote:Ok David.
I was one of those people who have been experiencing with your method since you published it for first time, and I can confirm you it works, of course it make sense, but you know we're all diferrent and not anyone will think like me. And this make sense becouse I've read Bates material and re-readed it, so my conclusions are right with what you say. It's becouse most of us can understand what you present there.
What is wrong with it and what can be improved? I'm still looking for it...how I gain more experience with it over time.
Indeed, you took my words the wrong way, my intention is not aruin your job nor offend you, if you took it in that way, my apologies. Your intentions are good. So I appreciate it.
Ah! You called me kid, well, that's is not an important factor here. If you're older than me, good for you. Bigger doesn't mean better. Any human being has the same power of knowledge, and you only have to know how to apply it.
Ok, sorry, I must have misinterpreted your post. Lost in translation, I guess. I think you meant it "will not work for everyone" vs "will not work for anyone" - two very different meanings. But I think I see what you're saying now. I'm open to adding more traditional Bates stuff to the beginning if people need to be able to rest their eyes a certain amount first or something.
Re: new article / site update - Zheka - 12-08-2010
To David.
First of all thank you for your site. It helps me to make clear many issues.
But I have some questions.
I am practicing the method you described. Looking for details I feel strong tension around my eyes. What nature would you say of this tension is? Is it caused by looking for details or it was present before but I did not feel it? And looking for blur causes appearance of new details (blur) that were not seen before. I find so many details that it scares me
. Is it a correct way? I have an astigmatism and in such number of details it becomes impossible to recognize the letter (or other object). I guess I have to continue to look for the new and new smaller and smaller details without trying to recognize what object I am looking at. Am I right?Thank you.
P.S. English is not so perfect but I hope my questions are understandable
.
Re: new article / site update - David - 12-08-2010
Zheka Wrote:To David.
First of all thank you for your site. It helps me to make clear many issues.
But I have some questions.
I am practicing the method you described. Looking for details I feel strong tension around my eyes. What nature would you say of this tension is? Is it caused by looking for details or it was present before but I did not feel it? And looking for blur causes appearance of new details (blur) that were not seen before. I find so many details that it scares me
Thank you.
P.S. English is not so perfect but I hope my questions are understandable
Hi Zheka,
Your English is actually pretty good.
If the objects appear to be worse because they are more scattered, or are more multiple images, and you see more smaller pieces of blur, that's definitely good, and you're on the right track. Sometimes things need to get worse before they can get better. While you do it, keep reminding yourself that the reason you see something blurry is because you aren't thinking of it as a small enough piece of detail. As soon as you notice a very tiny detail, it may disappear as quickly as it appeared, but you should then notice more nearby that you can also see for an instant before they disappear. If you don't notice any at all, first you have to imagine that they are there by thinking of everything as made up of a collection of the tiniest details.
That's interesting that so many details would scare you. That's good to be aware of, because there's some reason for it. Keep reminding yourself that it doesn't make sense to be scared of so many details, and eventually you should realize more about why it scares you.
The tension might be new or old. Either way, you can deal with it the same way. Remember to blink and breathe regularly. Palm every few minutes while letting your eyes relax as well as you can, while thinking of how small details an object you will be seeing is made of once you open your eyes again. And when you open your eyes, don't try to do anything with your eyes to force them to focus. Just keep remembering how small you want the details to be on what you are looking at. Resting your eyes briefly by blinking or palming helps avoid or relieve the tension, but looking at things correctly avoids or relieves tension also.
Keep me updated!
Re: new article / site update - Zheka - 12-09-2010
Thank you for your answer. It helps me very much to understand what I should do.
But I'd like to put you one question more.
For example, I look at any letter. But I see SOMETHING of indefinite form. This SOMETHING consists of many details, some of them are darker, some are almost invisible. Some of details appear, some disappear. Some of details even are separated from this big SOMETHING. I am looking at one of the details, at its corners, edges, inside parts. During this process I am blinking and breathing. Then I am trying to find the "pixels" inside one of details, "pixels" on its edges, corners.
And now a question. Does it matter whether I look at the details and find new details inside this big SOMETHING or at its peripheral parts? And does it matter whether I look at the parts that are darker or that are almost invisible?
Thank you.