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+--- Thread: Eccentric fixation "excersise" (/showthread.php?tid=1907)
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - Mart - 09-03-2011
michael_burnoute Wrote:Mart Wrote:No I haven't tried that, but it sounds interesting. Can this demonstration be done with a picture on the computer monitor, or does one need some special image that has been fused by hand?Well, it sure is interesting, but I have no idea if it's of any help. I did it on paper, but I guess it doesn't matter if it's on computer screen. I have a pdf file of simple images for fusion. I could send it to you if you like. It's nothing very special, though. I guess you could draw a couple of rectangles and paint one of them black.
Ok, I might make one later on, thanks anyway. I hope to be free from this strain in the center at some point, since it is a problem that cannot be fixed with any type or glasses or lenses. I would be alright with just having blurry vision, so I could correct it with lenses (even though I would ultimately want to be free from them too). Right now I don't use my lenses or glasses since they are just painful and help very little. I'll palm and sun even more and hopefully it'll be better. I suppose you have similar feelings and experience with this? But I take comfort in knowing it is just strain since it sometimes disappears, and I believe in Bates' method.
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - michael_burnoute - 09-03-2011
Mart, have you had loss of vision in the center? Migraines?
I remember that when ever I got new prescriptions, the details were "nervous". Shaky. But I think that after a while my eyes would make the sight a bit worse so I wouldn't notice the "nervousness" of the objects. Oh yes, one more thing, with glasses I see everythig equally well. I don't have the point of maximum vision. It's like my whole retina was a fovea.
This is going off topic, but I have to continue that in bright sunlight could manage to make letters black by the following method:
I held a Snellen card in my hand and I realized that there were black spots on some of the letters of certain size. I didn't just "imagine" them, they were there. I realized that the spots were there where the copies of images overlapped (yes, I see double and more). By thinking that "man, that's a very black spot. Very, very black." the blackness spread to a greater area and sometimes it filled the whole letter. And then I could see the whole card clearly.
I have done the same at close range with some bigger black circles. I mean, filled circles. I realized that the blackness wasn't eqully spread on the "ball", but there were dimmer crescents where the double images didn't overlap. When I shook the paper, I saw that sometimes the place of the crescent would be in an other part of the "ball". So I just kept shaking until the whole circle was evenly black. Then I could see with clear vision for a while, but I lost it easily.
Not probably wise or worthwhile, but great fun!
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - Mart - 09-03-2011
michael_burnoute Wrote:Mart, have you had loss of vision in the center? Migraines?
I remember that when ever I got new prescriptions, the details were "nervous". Shaky. But I think that after a while my eyes would make the sight a bit worse so I wouldn't notice the "nervousness" of the objects. Oh yes, one more thing, with glasses I see everythig equally well. I don't have the point of maximum vision. It's like my whole retina was a fovea.
No not complete loss, but that strain which causes lights at the center of my vision, that drown out details. When I wear strong glasses, the strain becomes worse, creating an evil circle, so glasses wo't help my much.
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - michael_burnoute - 09-03-2011
Mart Wrote:No not complete loss, but that straing which causes lighs at the center of my vision, that drown out details. When I wear strong glasses, the strain becomes worse, creating an evil circle, so glasses wo't help my much.Funny, that's how my migraines started. Is it all the time so or just occasionally? If it happens from time to time, have you noticed anything in common in the circumstances? Foods, lack of food, stress?
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - David - 09-03-2011
Mart Wrote:Thanks for you answer, but I am certain my problem is not normal. It's not just a tiny spot in the centre that is blurry, it is an area that covers the top letter of the Snellen card from about 4 feet. And after I have palmed a while, and my eyes relax, the problem disappears for a few moments and I can see the Snellen card much better. Bates also saw this problem in some of his patients, since he was able to help two women with this condition.
It's normal. I had that too. Wherever I looked, I usually couldn't see. I believe it has something to do with how the light rays in a myopic eye are actually more focused in the periphery, but I don't have any references for that. If it's true, it's not a disorder in itself; it's just the result of things.
Countless people have insisted that their myopia and related disorders are somehow special. Everyone wants to be special. But myopia is pretty much the same for everyone. It's just interpreted differently sometimes, and closely related disorders (strabismus, astigmatism) might be a little different. But it's the same causes, same symptoms, same solution.
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - Mart - 09-03-2011
michael_burnoute Wrote:Mart Wrote:No not complete loss, but that straing which causes lighs at the center of my vision, that drown out details. When I wear strong glasses, the strain becomes worse, creating an evil circle, so glasses wo't help my much.Funny, that's how my migraines started. Is it all the time so or just occasionally? If it happens from time to time, have you noticed anything in common in the circumstances? Foods, lack of food, stress?
Well, it's almost always there, except for a few moments., it might be some sort of unconsious stress of course, but I'm not sure.
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - Mart - 09-03-2011
David Wrote:Mart Wrote:Thanks for you answer, but I am certain my problem is not normal. It's not just a tiny spot in the centre that is blurry, it is an area that covers the top letter of the Snellen card from about 4 feet. And after I have palmed a while, and my eyes relax, the problem disappears for a few moments and I can see the Snellen card much better. Bates also saw this problem in some of his patients, since he was able to help two women with this condition.
It's normal. I had that too. Wherever I looked, I usually couldn't see. I believe it has something to do with how the light rays in a myopic eye are actually more focused in the periphery, but I don't have any references for that. If it's true, it's not a disorder in itself; it's just the result of things.
Countless people have insisted that their myopia and related disorders are somehow special. Everyone wants to be special. But myopia is pretty much the same for everyone. It's just interpreted differently sometimes, and closely related disorders (strabismus, astigmatism) might be a little different. But it's the same causes, same symptoms, same solution.
But if it is just myopia, why can't any optician or eye doctor presribe me with good glasses? And I can assure you I would rather have normal vision, not special vision.
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - michael_burnoute - 09-03-2011
David Wrote:It's normal. I had that too. Wherever I looked, I usually couldn't see. I believe it has something to do with how the light rays in a myopic eye are actually more focused in the periphery, but I don't have any references for that...I think so too. It's common sense that if the eyeball is flattened, the peripheria is closer to the focal point. I don't have any references either, but it makes sense.
Mart, that doesn't sound like common myopia, but more like an attack of migraine. But if you don't have headaches or nausea, it may not be that serious. I remember Bates saying that under strain the center of sight would go first.
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - Mart - 09-03-2011
michael_burnoute Wrote:David Wrote:It's normal. I had that too. Wherever I looked, I usually couldn't see. I believe it has something to do with how the light rays in a myopic eye are actually more focused in the periphery, but I don't have any references for that...I think so too. It's common sense that if the eyeball is flattened, the peripheria is closer to the focal point. I don't have any references either, but it makes sense.
Mart, that doesn't sound like common myopia, but more like an attack of migraine. But if you don't have headaches or nausea, it may not be that serious. I remember Bates saying that under strain the center of sight would go first.
I have aches sometimes, but it's not that common. I suppose it's some sort of strain in the eye ball or other muscle. Or perhaps strain caused by photophobia (I'm very light sensitive). That might be why it has lessened since I started sunning.
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - michael_burnoute - 09-03-2011
Mart Wrote:I have aches sometimes, but it's not that common. I suppose it's some sort of strain in the eye ball or other muscle. Or perhaps strain caused by photophobia (I'm very light sensitive). That might be why it has lessened since I started sunning.Sounds very good. Keep it up.
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - michael_burnoute - 09-03-2011
michael_burnoute Wrote:I think so too. It's common sense that if the eyeball is flattened, the peripheria is closer to the focal point. I don't have any references either, but it makes sense.Oh, man, I have to take that back. Bates says that "Central fixation is an illusion". He's the best reference so far so i'll have to go with that.
t.
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - sorrisiblue - 09-04-2011
Hey Mart, Have you been checked out by an eye doctor for other eye diseases that affect the center of vision specifically? Michael's idea that it might be migraines could still be it. It's possible to have the effects of a migraine (light sensitivity and blurry vision) without the head pain. There are other diseases which can affect the vision, so maybe get a general check-up and let your doctor know. My dad had something similar happen to him (suddenly happened, so might be different to what you've got) and they are checking his heart and doing lots of blood tests.
Mart and Michael - I can see what you mean now from the comments since my last post that even looking to the other side of the room makes the letter darker. I think doing the exercize with a flashlight as Bates suggested would be good then, have you tried that? Have someone stand on the other side of the room from the chart shining a light at you. Look at the chart, then look at the light. When you look at the light, do you see the C worse then? From that point maybe you can then have the person come closer to the chart. The light might work better than just looking to the other side of the room since it will attract your attention more.
Michael already answered your (Mart's) question to me about how to see the periphery worse, using your imagination is a great way to accomplish this. Also, it seems like some of the last suggestions from Michael have been working - keep practicing with those methods, where you can demonstrate central fixation successfully. Practice with what is easy. So if you can do this on a computer screen or with other print at the near point, use that as your starting point. Then you can gradually increase your distance from the print and decrease the movement you have to make to see the previous point worse.
JMartinC4 - "wrong as usual?" Give me a break, I was getting across the point that we see best from the center of sight for a reason, simply to correct your statement that the optic nerve creates a blind spot in the center of sight. Your quotes demonstrate what I said, that the small size of the fovea compared to the large amount of information it sends to the brain means that we see best from this point.
It's not aligned with optical axis, but it is in the center of the macula and is responsible for sharp central vision which you see written in the second sentence of the article you posted.
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - JMartinC4 - 09-04-2011
sorrisiblue Wrote:...JMartinC4 - "wrong as usual?" Give me a break, I was getting across the point that we see best from the center of sight for a reason, simply to correct your statement that the optic nerve creates a blind spot in the center of sight. Your quotes demonstrate what I said, that the small size of the fovea compared to the large amount of information it sends to the brain means that we see best from this point. It's not aligned with optical axis, but it is in the center of the macula and is responsible for sharp central vision which you see written in the second sentence of the article you posted.I didn't say that. Maybe 'wrong as usual' is too strong - you misunderstand and misread, in order to confirm your preconceptions. Take care, and good luck. My eyesight continues to improve. Yours doesn't.
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - sorrisiblue - 09-04-2011
From JMartinC:
Quote:In my opinion, the brain/mind somehow knows that it receives visual information from the center of the retinas (it has to combine input from both eyes) because the center is where the optic nerves connect to the retinas.
I guess I misunderstood the part where you wrote "the center is where the optic nerves connect to the retinas" as you meaning to say that the center is where the optic nerves connect to the retinas. Sorry.
Quote:My eyesight continues to improve. Yours doesn't.
Why is my vision improvement relevant to this discussion? Your words sound like a bit of a schoolboy taunt. Something that might not be appropriate on an adult forum?
I'm pretty happy with my improvement from 5/200 (not being able to see much without glasses) to 5/10, 10/20, 20/50. It's functional vision, and I continue to be able to see more and more despite lots of stress. I'd go on, but this thread is not about my vision improvement. If you'd like to comment more about my vision improvement and make comparisons with how amazing yours is, send me a PM or start a new thread.
Re: Eccentric fixation "excersise" - Mart - 09-04-2011
sorrisiblue,
Yes I've experimented with a light, both by putting it on a shelf away from me and holding it close. The problem was that my photophobia responded to it, which messed up the excersise a bit. I think I'll continue with my sunning first and foremost, and then try these other techniques afterwards. I haven't really noticed how bad my photophobia is, since I've gotten so used to it over the years, but now I realize that it is actually quite serious- many times I'm blinded by the light if I just look out a window. I think that this photophobia might me causing the extra strain lights and blur in the center of my vision.