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+--- Thread: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to school? (/showthread.php?tid=2066)
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Shambles - 05-16-2012
Agreed, read a paragraph below.
I guess I wasn't looking at the wider picture
If you can't do school work without glasses I can see the how fustrating that can be...
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Daniel - 05-16-2012
Pikachu Wrote:I think we can all agree that a sacrifice needs to be made here. Anyone who thinks that they can optimize their educational experience AND their vision improvement is greatly deceived. I don't see why you can't have some of each, but it's a tradeoff.Actually, one probably could optimize both, by putting education on hold until vision has improved enough to function without glasses in an educational environment. As for "having some of each", the problem is that each is likely to weaken the other, and the whole "balancing act" is likely to cause you stress, which once again is detrimental to both goals.
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Pikachu - 05-17-2012
@Daniel: I wasn't very clear in my post there. What I meant is that you can't optimize both things at the same time.
Interesting point, but couldn't one argue that you can make the same optimization from the other direction? By putting vision on hold until you're done with your education? Both methods have their downsides, but it seems to me that the deterioration of the eyes that might come from pursuing the education first is analogous to the deterioration in one's knowledge/understanding that would come from pursuing vision improvement first.
Again, I agree with the balancing act point. Both do indeed suffer to some degree, but so far, I think I am fairly fortunate to have been able to balance vision and education without too many problems. My vision has been holding steady and could be improving slightly, which is certainly an improvement (though not much, admittedly) from constantly deteriorating vision. And strangely, my grades have gotten better and my academic strain has been reduced. Something about vision improvement has taught me to let go of a good deal of academic strain. So it can be done, I think, although it is definitely not the fastest way to perfect vision.
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Daniel - 05-17-2012
Up to now I have been qualifying what I say by noting that I am not actually suggesting that anyone quit school. I have however been giving a lot of thought to what someone in this situation could do if their education is required by law. Home education, usually the answer if you feel the need to get out of brick-and-mortar school, would probably not be a satisfactory solution here, since you would still be doing work which you need to lean forward to see.
I've been trying to imagine if I had known about vision improvement in 6th or 7th grade, when my nearsightedness was to the point where I had no choice but to put on glasses to see the board, and either wear glasses or lean forward somewhat to do desk-work, but still not all that bad. I may have figured that I would do it over the next summer vacation, but in reality that would not have been a good solution, since I would have then been pressuring myself to get it done within a 10-week period.
If I had said that I couldn't come to school because it was incompatible with my goal of improving eyesight, I imagine that among other things an eye doctor would have been called in to tell me it would never work. I would have then wanted substantive evidence that it could work. Something like this, written by an optometrist and published in a vision journal. I would have then pointed out that it took her seven years, and explained that I didn't want to wait that long.
If I still failed to get my way and was facing legal consequences for "truancy", I might have gone to school but made it known that I would not do any work.
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Daniel - 05-17-2012
Pikachu Wrote:Interesting point, but couldn't one argue that you can make the same optimization from the other direction? By putting vision on hold until you're done with your education? Both methods have their downsides, but it seems to me that the deterioration of the eyes that might come from pursuing the education first is analogous to the deterioration in one's knowledge/understanding that would come from pursuing vision improvement first.Once you're "done with your education", you'll probably be looking for a full-time job, which is likely to be just as detrimental to vision improvement. If you're going to indefinitely put off serious pursuit of better vision, you might as well just forget about it. Education you can resume at any time.
Pikachu Wrote:Again, I agree with the balancing act point. Both do indeed suffer to some degree, but so far, I think I am fairly fortunate to have been able to balance vision and education without too many problems. My vision has been holding steady and could be improving slightly, which is certainly an improvement (though not much, admittedly) from constantly deteriorating vision. And strangely, my grades have gotten better and my academic strain has been reduced. Something about vision improvement has taught me to let go of a good deal of academic strain. So it can be done, I think, although it is definitely not the fastest way to perfect vision.That's good to hear, but holding steady is not the same thing as improving.
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Pikachu - 05-18-2012
@Daniel: I suppose we have to agree to disagree then. Yes, naturally, job search would follow education. But I do not understand why you emphasize that one can resume his/her education at any time. Can't the same be said of vision improvement? When it comes down to it, I think the most practical and least extreme approach is to try to live a more-or-less normal life and spend as much time as can be managed (i.e. free time) to vision improvement. This way, you can pursue that education, get that job, and still work on improving that vision. Again, I repeat that it is definitely not the fastest road to improvement, but it makes the most sense to me.
It's a matter of priority, I guess. I can live with an unchanging but imperfect vision with an education and hopefully a job in the future, but I don't think I can live with perfect vision with an education and job postponed several years down the road. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I would do as well academically after a hiatus of several years and the result would likely be a less desirable job. But if I were heir to some fortune or business or something, then things would be different. There would be no need to have an education and job immediately, if ever.
I'm convinced that most people who pursue vision improvement don't completely put school, work, or other commitments on hold while they work their way to 20/20, or even 20/40. And I think they have good reason not to. In fact, most stories I have heard to date have involved a careful juggling of vision improvement and work/school/commitments. I'm not saying it's necessarily "wrong" to do what you're suggesting, but I do think that it's not for most people, and it requires a sacrifice that flies against convention. Yes, vision improvement is against convention too, but choosing to delay an education and the prospects of a good job is a pretty risky move, in my opinion.
Anyway, it's nice discussing this with you. There's nothing better than a chance to expand one's horizons and learn something new.
By the way, I'm interested in hearing your story, if you're willing to share.
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Daniel - 05-19-2012
Pikachu Wrote:Yes, naturally, job search would follow education. But I do not understand why you emphasize that one can resume his/her education at any time. Can't the same be said of vision improvement?Not really, unless you have an arrangement to have all your needs taken care of with no expectation of you working or pursuing a higher education.
Pikachu Wrote:It's a matter of priority, I guess. I can live with an unchanging but imperfect vision with an education and hopefully a job in the future, but I don't think I can live with perfect vision with an education and job postponed several years down the road. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I would do as well academically after a hiatus of several years and the result would likely be a less desirable job.
Why "several years"? If you think it would take several years even if you pulled out all the stops, how long is it going to take otherwise?
Pikachu Wrote:I'm convinced that most people who pursue vision improvement don't completely put school, work, or other commitments on hold while they work their way to 20/20, or even 20/40.And how many people with nearsightedness significantly worse than 20/40 succeed in getting there (lastingly, not just in "flashes")? My impression is very few.
Pikachu Wrote:By the way, I'm interested in hearing your story, if you're willing to share.
See here.
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Pikachu - 05-21-2012
@Daniel: Fair points. I've spent some time thinking it over, but I'm still inclined to believe that going all in is not for most people. Is it going to take a long time otherwise? I'm sure it will, especially for someone like me.
But what bothers me about the idea of postponing one's education for vision improvement is the "all-in" nature of it. I realize that that's exactly the point, but there is the risk that someone never "gets" it and gives up after a certain unproductive period of time. I mean, I'm just looking at how I approach things, and I don't know if I'd be able to go through 24/7 vision improvement. There could be the pressure of feeling that you should be improving, the frustration of not getting desired results, even boredom from doing the same thing over and over again. I have these problems right now just practicing vision improvement part-time...
So how is your vision these days?
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Daniel - 05-22-2012
Pikachu Wrote:So how is your vision these days?As bad as ever, unfortunately. Note that there was someone in another thread who is about as nearsighted as I am, and who uses the computer 8 hours a day for work, and I told him/her to forget about improving. I think I would have to stop using the computer for a while to have a chance at getting lasting improvement.
Pikachu Wrote:But what bothers me about the idea of postponing one's education for vision improvement is the "all-in" nature of it. I realize that that's exactly the point, but there is the risk that someone never "gets" it and gives up after a certain unproductive period of time. I mean, I'm just looking at how I approach things, and I don't know if I'd be able to go through 24/7 vision improvement. There could be the pressure of feeling that you should be improving, the frustration of not getting desired results, even boredom from doing the same thing over and over again. I have these problems right now just practicing vision improvement part-time...Well, you probably need other activities in your life, but unfortunately the worse your vision is the fewer things you can really (or safely) do without glasses. This is why people should be made aware of vision improvement before they get too nearsighted.
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Shambles - 05-22-2012
Daniel Wrote:Well, you probably need other activities in your life, but unfortunately the worse your vision is the fewer things you can really (or safely) do without glasses. This is why people should be made aware of vision improvement before they get too nearsighted.
Are you saying your vision will get worse if your in school and there is no way of preventing that?
Honest how much time does one spend studying? During the main part of the year I dont really do anything but for arguments sake lets say you spend 2 hours a day. You can still go outside to improve my vision. Infact having a 9-5 office job would probably be worse than going to school, on top of that you have a entire summer of doing jack all! To be fair the only time you will be grinding the work is before final examinations.
Maybe you can't improve your vision but Im sure you can prevent it from getting worse, simply by ditching glasses and just remembering not to stare, centrally fixate.
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Daniel - 05-22-2012
You can probably prevent it from getting worse (not sure how you thought I was suggesting otherwise), but the time a moderate myope will spend wearing glasses/squinting/leaning forward, in class or while studying outside of class, will work against any improvement.
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Pikachu - 05-22-2012
@Daniel: I'm sorry to hear that. I feel the same way you do a lot. It just feels like I've dug myself one big hole. But there's no way around it, so I just try to work with what I have.
@Shambles: I don't know how myopic you are, but basically, it's a vicious cycle. The eyesight is most easily improved when it is almost normal to begin with. When it gets bad to the point where you have to put on glasses just to see things more than 5 feet away with any semblance of clarity, you know you're in a fix. Wearing glasses will definitely delay any improvement you can get and not wearing them runs the risk of straining by staring/squinting if you are looking at something too far away. I like to think of any improvement you get as the sum of your gains and losses. Your gains include the temporary improvements you get from practicing the Bates method. Your losses include any strain from staring, squinting, wearing glasses, etc. So for someone very myopic (like myself; I can't recognize faces from more than four feet away!), a day consists of a few steps forward and a few steps backward. So it's a lot more difficult -- but I think it's still doable.
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Shambles - 05-22-2012
@Pikachu. Yeh I get you, I guess I forgot to write the use of weaker lenses when needed.
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Daniel - 07-24-2012
Glad to see that this thread has been moved to its proper place. Any more thoughts from anyone on this dilemma?
Re: I'm not skeptical - but how can I do it if I go to schoo - Sean_Augensicht - 07-25-2012
I respectfully disagree with everyone telling you to postpone school. If vision improvement meant that I had to sacrifice an education, job, etc., I wouldn't find it worthwhile. Get a pair of lenses that allow you to see at least 20/40 to see the board. And go without lenses when doing so wouldn't cause you to strain even more. You can practice vision even while wearing 20/40 lenses, by the way.
For SOME people, progress is fastest when the glasses are discarded entirely. Maybe if you're a farmer or rancher. But what works for some people may not apply to you. I suspect that most people with the typical modern-day job who are more than a little nearsighted would be better off with a more gradual approach involving slightly weaker lenses.
I have a job requiring heavy computer use and attendance of presentations in meeting rooms. I also drive a moderate amount, including at night. None of this would be possible without my 20/40 lenses. Yet I've managed to make progress gradually, and my 20/40 lenses have gotten weaker over time.
Vision improvement is all about not trying to bite off more than you can chew. Gradual improvement is the key. If you did something radical like drop out of school, you'd get depressed, you'd compromise your future, and thereby increase your stress levels. And we all know that bad vision is linked to emotions.
Figure out what you need to do to strain the least amount at each point in time. This may require some experimentation, but you need to take responsibility for yourself and figure out what you need to do. At some points in time, this may actually involve wearing slightly weak glasses. Be careful not to make them too weak, though, because the very act of wearing glasses somehow tends to make you strain a little, and if you can't see well enough to do a task, you strain even more, which means you get the worst of both worlds. So 20/40 or no lenses at all times is my policy for myself.