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+--- Thread: David's Method, did I miss something? (/showthread.php?tid=2072)
David's Method, did I miss something? - Jambo2000 - 05-09-2012
Hi everyone,
I been doing the bates method for almost a year with very poor results...I improved my eyesight only by 0.5 diopters and after I stopped with it the eyesight returned to what it was. I was frustrated and didn't understand why it didn't work. Then when I read david's blogs I realized that I was training and relaxing my eyes but abusing them all day long by staring and not looking on details. But after 2 and half months of very intense and obsessive training my eyesight had improved only by 0.5 diopters. So why it's taking so long? Not using glasses for more then a year is effecting my life and it's frustrating, I think I missed something and I need to add something to my eyes training routine. Maybe the people that did have success here can help me out.
So here is my detailed eyesight Improvement journal(oh and sorry for the poor English it's not my native language):
Week 1:
So then I started the right way of training my eyes. At the first week I tried to make a habit to look always on one spot at a time, I continued telling my self that I can't see the whole picture, that that's impossible and that I can see it only detail by detail. I noticed that my eye muscles began to stretch not to strain but to stretch and I felt like the muscles on the the bridge of the nose and the forehead are making an effort as well.
week 2:
Once the central fixation became more comfortable, I began looking at details and more small details for an hour every day and every time my eyes were starting to stare, I was catching myself every time and reminded myself to always look at something always look at details. I was catching myself like 1000 times a day over and over again. Also I started to look at things like I'm looking at them for the first time, with interest and curiosity like we all did in our childhood when we were actually learning how to see too I think. At the end of every day I felt that the visual system worked very hard, I had head aches at the back of the head where the optic nerve is located and the the eye muscles as well as the face muscles felt uncomfortable. Also I noticed that when I palmed I didn't feel the sensations of relieving strain, It's like palming wont relieve strain anymore because the muscles are not strained.
Week 3:
On that week my eyes almost forgot what it is to stare. Every time they began staring I was warned by pain in my eye muscles and then when I began looking at details again the pain was over. I also learned to bring things especially words into focus by looking at the edges of the letters and noticing where the top and the bottom of the letter are .
Week 4:
On that week the eyes were looking at details by themselves with a little effort from my conscience mind. My headaches were gone, the sensations in the eye muscles were gone to but the uncomfortable feeling in the bridge of the nose and forehead remained every time I tried to bring things to more focus by looking at smaller and smaller details on the blur. Also I could sit near the computer for 5-6 hours and to my surprise the eyes didn't hurt at all.
Week 5:
On that week I started to do my training routines outside. Lookin at the distance for an half hour to an hour a day. After every routine my eyesight was very sharp for 10-15 minutes and then was returning to the blurry state. i also started to do what Lakeivan explained on the forum to try to relax the face muscles.
week 6:
I noticed that my vision improved very slightly.My eyes began to be completely on auto pilot looking at small details by themselves and I didn't remember when was the last time I was staring.
Now a month later, after 2 months and a half, I went to the optician and my vision did improve but only by 0.5 diopters.
Why it's taking so long? I can't go with lower prescription lenses because my eyes can't stand contacts...and I can't wear lower prescription glasses because glasses block the peripheral vision and all the visual field look much smaller and unnatural so obviously it will be very uncomfortable to train the vision properly that way. But being that long without glasses, I mean i didn't wore glasses for more then a year now and it's became too annoying not recognizing people on the street, difficulty with reading signs, Bus numbers and at night is even more frustrating well you know what I talking about we all experienced it.
So the ones who did had more success then me, Can you describe your progress step by step like I did? and David can you write a detailed training program for the eyes? you know like the programs that are given by the gym coaches etc. I mean you improved your eyesight only by the looking at details habit? It must have been some training program you made for yourself...
Sorry for the long post hope you all had the patience to read it
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - FIAT2LUX - 05-09-2012
Well I did take the time to read it and have some thoughts.
First, Nancy from dreamersight.wordpress.com took 10 years to remove 8 diopters from her prescription. Some of the stories Dr. Bates speaks of only took a few months to regain perfect eyesight, but I think that is a very rare thing to occur.
I understand your issue with contacts and glasses, but I think the best compromise is to be able to use slightly weak glasses when doing things that require more clear sight such as driving a car. Just know that the blurred peripheral is annoying, but eventually you won't need glasses.
Keep learning to recognize details. At -4 diopters I can recognize people I know at 20-30 feet and their faces at 10 feet. It's a short distance, but at least it can be done without glasses.
Remember that this can be a slow process. It's not always very fast. You are already doing pretty good. In fact, with the amount of practice you are currently doing, if I can apply that as well for the next six months, I should see an improvement at the optometrist's office myself.
Remember that you are making progress! This is good. Just have patience.
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - clarknight - 05-09-2012
Don't give up on the Bates Method. A friend of mine used the Bates Method and cured cataracts, improved the clarity of his vision and stopped progression of glaucoma, did not need his eye drops. Then, this past 6 months I found out he went back to using eyeglasses, not practicing Bates Method much and his eyesight started to reverse, impair, increased glaucoma eye pressure up. He went to the eye doctor and the doctor prescribed very strong eyeglasses, the strongest he has ever used and told him he will go blind. He wore the glasses for about 2 months and this past week had vision problems and then went blind. He can see light and shadows still and objects up very close to the eyes. Optic nerve impaired by the glaucoma.
My heart sank when he contacted me yesterday. Hes really a nice guy.
He is now going back to the Bates Method and has thrown the glasses away. I hope he gets his sight back. Dr. Bates cured many people of glaucoma and other eye conditions.
It is hard to go without glasses in this day with driving, computer.... work but try to stay away from them as much as possible and do apply FIAT2LUX and Nancy's method of using the reduced weaker eyeglasses and only when absolutely needed. Also read Sorrisi's posts.
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - David - 05-09-2012
Jambo, thanks for sharing. As usual, the person who apologizes for their poor English writes better than most native English speakers.
I've made progress recently on writing a more complete guide. I thought I would have something up by now, but I've been spending time on other things.
There are a few subtle changes in your habits of seeing that might be hard to grasp. It comes down to understanding what your role is in seeing. Generally looking at details more and more as you have done is a good step, and it comes down to the specific way you do it. It has to match the way that people with normal vision use their eyes all the time. You can't use little tricks that you would not maintain indefinitely, because eventually those tricks will fail you as an interference with the correct natural process of seeing.
One aspect is how people with normal vision treat their central vision and how they treat their peripheral vision. Recognize that your central vision, as a very small area, is the only source of the clearest details, and don't expect clear details to come from anywhere else. It's relatively easy to conceptualize how your peripheral vision will work on its own if you concentrate on your central vision, but your central vision in a way needs to work on its own too. So you have only a limited role, and your eyes and brain do the rest.
You have to take responsibility for your state of vision in a general sense, and that just means being determined to do this right like you are, but interestingly taking responsibility also means you have to understand that you can't do everything yourself and you have to learn to delegate control and be confident about giving it away. So if you try to take control of chasing down every detail you're overstepping your role a bit. It might feel odd to give up complete control, as though in the end you're not doing much, and it can seem inconceivable that such a subtle change in the way you think of your vision can have such an effect. But if you pay attention to the small area that your central vision is on at the moment and you expect details to appear only from there, you will start to notice details becoming more apparent there as a result of your visual system just doing its job, and you start to notice how much you actually do see in your central vision if you really think about it, even though it's blurry. And then as you look around at other objects it's a matter of mentally narrowing that area of where you expect your clearest vision to come from. So you aren't worried about what amount of detail becomes apparent at each spot you pay attention to, because creating the detail isn't your job. And that can be quite a load off your shoulders.
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - Nancy - 05-09-2012
Jambo2000, when I read your post my first impression is that you're trying too hard, wanting clearer sight so much you're straining for it and getting in your own way. I made this mistake myself for years, and sometimes still do, but at least now I catch myself sooner, then change my visual behavior from trying to allowing.
This work is a combination of the right habits (focusing on only a small point at a time while still remaining aware of the periphery, blinking enough, moving your gaze often, looking with attention rather than "tuning out" to what your seeing), and also the right attitude. It's more like inviting in the clear images and welcoming them gratefully than it is chasing them down and tackling them, pinning them down so they don't get away! David's advice is excellent -- read it a few times. This may seem paradoxical, but I'm sensing you're working too hard. Think of smelling a flower -- you don't strain, you just receive the fragrance, and clear sight is like that too.
Like FIAT2LUX says, you are making progress, maybe more than you realize. Teaching your brain and eyes by your behavior that your eyesight CAN improve, even temporarily at first, is major, so give yourself some credit. (Fiat, thanks for holding me up as an example -- I'm a slow student, but determined!) Keep up the good work, and keep us posted.
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - Jambo2000 - 05-09-2012
tnx for the replies you guys!
Well David I did noticed what you mentioned, that when I do let go and let my new programming work on its own its much more easy because when i'm always aware of it and trying to help it consciously, it's just overwhelming. I did noticed that I just need to narrow my central vision and the eyes kinda adjust to the small details and bringing a more intensed and focused state that brings everything into focus. Then I feel this intense sensation In my forehead and above the bridge of the nose like there is a muscle there that is responsible for this focus that is very tense and just struggles to bring more focus. I also noticed that when I'm in this state and focus on the sensation in this area or just narrow the central vision the eyes are bringing things to focus by themselves and really my role here is little. So what you say is that my new habit needs to be constantly returning to this state and let the visual system do the rest?
Another question is, do I need to continue doing palming, sunning and swinging? What about the other bates exercises? I'm asking because I don't feel strain anymore and my eyes are relaxed all the time simply because i'm using them right.
Nancy I did noticed that after yoga and meditation or EFT I feel more relaxed and less worried about my eyes and then the eyesight do seem more accurate. Maybe I do push myself too hard. It became an obsession i'm afraid.
FIAT2LUX tnx for the encouragement and clarknight sorry about your friend hope his eyesight will get better!
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - clarknight - 05-09-2012
The glaucoma student did open eyed sunning with shifting, palming, swinging last evening. Yesterday could not see the sun, all dark. Today can see it, bit vision returning!
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - FIAT2LUX - 05-09-2012
Clark Night,
Wow! I didn't realize that those type of cases still existed today.
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - clarknight - 05-10-2012
Been following his improvement for about 2 years. Did so great when staying away from the eyeglasses. Worn his entire life, very strong, then stopped, used Bates method and cured so many conditions, on his own! Is a senior citizen. Yesterday afternoon says still better. Made him audios of Better Eyesight Magazine Glaucoma issues to listen to. I know 2 other older people that have claimed by e-mail to have cured blindness with the sunlight and Bates Method. The man says after corrected his vision he met a older lady, blind and cured her. Uses sun-gazing, sun-glass and other Bates practices. They are writing a book about it.
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - sean - 05-15-2012
Great post, Jambo.
You seem to be setting about it much the same way as myself (or at least that's what I am trying to do). I just read David's reply to you for a second time and this describes it very well, I think.
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - sean - 05-15-2012
I meant to add, your improvement is excellent.
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - Jambo2000 - 05-15-2012
Tnx man! Hmm today I noticed that it's like my brain learned to bring things into focus much faster, today I looked at signs on the street I didn't understood what was written on them...I didn't looked at details I just narrowed my central fixation mentally and boom! the words were sharp in an instant. I think that eventually the brain will bring this focus at any distance very fast, thats how it's supposed to work. I think that when normal people look at something it's blurry but the brain brings it to focus so fast that they just don't notice the blur.
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - FIAT2LUX - 05-15-2012
Jambo2000 Wrote:Tnx man! Hmm today I noticed that it's like my brain learned to bring things into focus much faster, today I looked at signs on the street I didn't understood what was written on them...I didn't looked at details I just narrowed my central fixation mentally and boom! the words were sharp in an instant. I think that eventually the brain will bring this focus at any distance very fast, thats how it's supposed to work. I think that when normal people look at something it's blurry but the brain brings it to focus so fast that they just don't notice the blur.
Pffft. I'm re-reading David's blog posts. You seem to have SO gotten the hang of this already. Definetly someone for me to learn from. Way to go again!
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - David - 05-15-2012
Good job Jambo.
That's the biggest stumbling block, I think. If you try to see details that you can't see (yet), you're putting a strain on your visual system. If you react to that by trying to relax your eyes instead, you may end up further suppressing your central vision in your effort to avoid straining to see details.
And I suspect that to some degree relaxing the eyes is a reaction that many people have who haven't even heard of the Bates method. They know that trying to force themselves to see details that are blurry hurts their eyes and fails, so they widen their attention to avoid doing so.
But the issue can be resolved by changing the way you look for details. It's subtle. Narrow the area from which you will accept the clearest details to come from. It's a big step to immediately narrow it to a point as small as you really need for perfect vision, so you just take it in steps by narrowing the area somewhat and seeing what happens. And you wait and find out what details you see there (or don't see) within a few seconds, and move on. The smaller the area, the better it works. But it does take time. You have it give it those few seconds and keep moving to another spot, and start doing it again as often as you can, and try narrowing the area further. It's how you stimulate your central vision. After you've reminded yourself enough times that you can keep doing it for longer than a few seconds without another reminder, you will find you can start to do certain simple tasks at the same time (washing dishes?).
By only mentally narrowing your area of expected clearest vision, you can remain receptive to seeing anything, and the burden of having to try to see clearly is taken off your shoulders. So you're being receptive and allowing your vision to work while at the same time you're focused on one thing at a time and in control.
Re: David's Method, did I miss something? - Jambo2000 - 05-15-2012
Thanks for the informative post! It's good to know I'm making progress.
I wrote on some other post how I read the 20/20 line with weaker glasses that left me with -1 prescription, it was difficult and only then I realized that a person who has 20/20 vision has a very very little central fixation area...so I tried very very hard to narrow it as much as possible and then well there was still a little blur...but I was able to understand what was written there.The optometrist was in shock because she didn't see me do something extraordinary, from her view I was just looking at it and some how brought it into focus.
So then I was trying to train my mind to remember the maximum focused central fixation state, from time to time when I noticed that it's not narrowed enough I looked at a very small detail somewhere and told myself: "Okay stay with that focus, look now at everything like you looked at that very very small detail". When I look at a blur and I need a reminder of the narrowed focus, I look at the smallest detail on the blur and then imagine a very tiny spot on this detail. So yesterday when I brought street signs into focus, I just proved myself that this is it, this how normal people see.
Now I understand why it was important to look at details, at first I thought that this how normal people see they look at all the small details very fast and then the picture becomes clear...well I was clearly wrong. The purpose of it was:
1. To learn not to stare, especially when looking at a blur.
2. To train the mind how to narrow more and more the central fixation.This is why David wrote to look on the smallest details with in the details.
3. I think that looking at details also made us more curious and much more aware of our vision. It made an interest in seeing, It's like now we started to really want to see the world. Every color, every shape, every detail. Not like when we were staring, when we just thought well its blurry anyway whats the point to try to see something? If I will not see anything anyway...so you don't want to see, you ain't looking at anything, how do you supposed to see something?
So how it will work eventually? The answer was clear to me there in the office when the optometrist told me, that the eyes shape can't be reversed bla bla bla and how exactly I'm supposed to improve my eyesight if this is so? So I answered her question "The brain is the most incredible thing in the known universe, it's doing many complicated tasks everyday and every time we discover how amazing it is and what it can do. So I think the brain will adjust to the new state of seeing it will understand that it needs to make a change in order to see and it will do whats necessary to make me see better. Cause the brain knows the body better then any doctor could ever know. So you believe what you want to believe lady, but I will return to this office every time with better eyesight and prove that you are wrong".