Eyesight Improvement Forum
David's method - Find it here! - Printable Version

+- Eyesight Improvement Forum (https://www.iblindness.org/forum)
+-- Forum: General Discussion (https://www.iblindness.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: David's method (https://www.iblindness.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Thread: David's method - Find it here! (/showthread.php?tid=2162)

Pages: 1 2


David's method - Find it here! - David - 08-19-2012

http://www.iblindness.org/davids-method/


Re: David's method - Find it here! - Nini - 08-21-2012

Thank you very much for this clear description, David.
It helps to 'see may aspects clearer' (for me especially the relation between the peripheral vision and the center and how to focus attention correctly to release the peripheral vision and just allow it to resume its correct functions) and to put the 'parts of the puzzle' together.


Re: David's method - Find it here! - clarknight - 08-21-2012

Printed and reading. My iblindness.org bible! Great! I like the pictures of the fovea, peripheral, blind spot...

Was so easy to just click the PDF button and download! Can you place it on your blog pages too?


Re: David's method - Find it here! - Sean_Augensicht - 08-21-2012

Hi David,

Thank you so much for posting the update. I've made much progress applying principles you describe in your paper, but I'm concerned that your description omits a few concepts that you may realize without being consciously aware of them, but that other people may overlook and do incorrect things as a result. I think you've made a wonderful start and I appreciate how hard it is to write about this topic, so I hope you'll welcome my input on how I think you can create an even more useful document.

The first thing I wish you'd devote more attention to is the concept that it's impossible to pay attention to something for more than a moment before you shift your attention to something else (unless you're straining). If you're moving your attention mentally, this happens naturally, but people who are mistakenly trying to shift among different details using physical manipulations of their eye muscles will have a subconscious tendency to try to "grab onto" to the point they are paying attention to. The right thought to have while doing this is that you don't care how well you see a particular detail. If you see a disorganized blur, you see a disorganized blur, and you have to immediately allow your attention to drift to the next thing of interest, because that is what normal vision naturally wants to do. I understand why you tell people to look at a detail for a few seconds until it registers (and I agree that "registering" is very important), but an uncareful reader may be misled into spending too long on a detail and trying to manufacture clarity through effort. The thing is, if you're doing things correctly by shifting your attention, as opposed to mechanically moving your eyes around, you can't AVOID registering what you're seeing.

My second thought is about the importance of seeing movement. In the past you've stated that you think Bates' treatment of oppositional movement is potentially confusing, but in my case, I cannot overemphasize the importance of allowing myself to be aware of the universal swing (i.e., the entire field of vision moving slightly). When you're straining to see, the movement is either absent or not universal (i.e., different parts of the field of vision may move in different directions--a fact that surprised me when I realized that this can occur). It can easily be demonstrated that when you're practicing your method correctly (as opposed to, say, grabbing onto details through conscious physical movements), you can be made aware of subtle movements of objects in the periphery. Therefore, awareness of the universal swing is an important feedback mechanism that provides evidence that you're applying your method correctly.

I have some further thoughts that I'll write about when I have time. I plan to write about my thoughts about the importance of imagination and mental imagery in all this, as well as the importance of noticing feelings inside your eyes when you're shifting.


Re: David's method - Find it here! - David - 08-21-2012

clarknight Wrote:Printed and reading. My iblindness.org bible! Great! I like the pictures of the fovea, peripheral, blind spot...

Was so easy to just click the PDF button and download! Can you place it on your blog pages too?

Ok, I'll see about adding the widget to the blog pages.


Re: David's method - Find it here! - David - 08-21-2012

Sean, thanks for the feedback. On the shifting speed, I felt like it was too much to ask the reader to shift several times a second right off the bat, while keeping the other things in mind at the same time, so once every couple seconds gives a starting point that's a little easier to work with, with instructions on speeding it up. I could expand on it a little to clarify that it's actually easier to go faster once you have the idea, and more beneficial to vision.

I didn't mention it, but oppositional movement I would classify with depth perception, which I think is important to be aware of to help the eyes focus for the right distance. Like when you look at something while moving your head you see the movement and instantly get the relative depth of different objects. Or the same when you turn to look around a larger scene, except you move your whole body a bit so everything appears to move a bit and you get the sense of depth.


Re: David's method - Find it here! - lou_deg - 08-22-2012

David, in part 4 you talk about seeing double and that it is due to astigmatism. I have astigmatism and see double with each eye, so it is consistent with your statement. But when I wear glasses with only spherical correction the double vision disappears so I'm a little confused. (If I had money to burn I could purchase glasses with only astigmatic correction, no sphere, and test your statement.) You are probably correct...Clark also said the same thing...but I wonder how you came to that conclusion? -Lou


Re: David's method - Find it here! - David - 08-22-2012

lou_deg Wrote:David, in part 4 you talk about seeing double and that it is due to astigmatism. I have astigmatism and see double with each eye, so it is consistent with your statement. But when I wear glasses with only spherical correction the double vision disappears so I'm a little confused. (If I had money to burn I could purchase glasses with only astigmatic correction, no sphere, and test your statement.) You are probably correct...Clark also said the same thing...but I wonder how you came to that conclusion? -Lou

It's pretty much the definition of astigmatism. I don't know of any source that claims that astigmatism doesn't cause double vision. Do you? It doesn't mean it's the only cause of double vision, but it's a common one. I don't know all the optics involved in correcting astigmatism, but I've heard that correcting myopia corrects astigmatism somewhat, or in other words, astigmatism is worse without glasses if you have it.


Re: David's method - Find it here! - Pikachu - 08-22-2012

I agree with what Sean mentioned above, although, I think that with some experimentation, the curious student discovers those things anyway. I've actually been trying this out the past few days, and I noticed both of the points mentioned - which I hope means that I'm on the right track.

Specifically, I've found that it becomes very straining and very tiring when I try to do any more than register the detail. Thus far, this has been the number one pitfall I have run into time and time again. I have also noticed that noticing oppositional movement while shifting from one detail to another feels a little more natural and relaxing.

Also, I think that when I am doing it correctly, there's a feeling of automation (not sure what else to call it). It's like my subconscious has finally given in and is shifting from point to point on autopilot. It doesn't usually last too long, but when it does happen, I take it as an encouraging sign that I'm doing something right.


Re: David's method - Find it here! - lou_deg - 08-22-2012

David, when I google astigmatism, sites like wikipedia, pubmedhealth, american optometric assoc, etc. do not mention double vision at all. It's common to read that astigmatism is due to a football shape cornea instead of spherical. So if I (myope) am looking at a round, red traffic light, then a football-shaped cornea/lens would cast an image of an oval at the retina (see wikipedia: When one axis is more in focus than the other, dot-like features on the disc project to oval shapes). But I see mainly round and mainly two distinct red traffic lights laterally displaced apart. It doesn't make sense how astigmatism causes double vision.
(The "plus" lens site throws out a theory based on the many layers of the retina to try to explain double vision.)


Re: David's method - Find it here! - David - 08-22-2012

lou_deg Wrote:David, when I google astigmatism, sites like wikipedia, pubmedhealth, american optometric assoc, etc. do not mention double vision at all. It's common to read that astigmatism is due to a football shape cornea instead of spherical. So if I (myope) am looking at a round, red traffic light, then a football-shaped cornea/lens would cast an image of an oval at the retina (see wikipedia: When one axis is more in focus than the other, dot-like features on the disc project to oval shapes). But I see mainly round and mainly two distinct red traffic lights laterally displaced apart. It doesn't make sense how astigmatism causes double vision.
(The "plus" lens site throws out a theory based on the many layers of the retina to try to explain double vision.)

A couple google results

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258122/">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258122/</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/symptom/monocular-diplopia.htm">http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/symptom/m ... plopia.htm</a><!-- m -->

They aren't always mentioned together, so maybe it's more complicated than I thought.


Re: David's method - Find it here! - lou_deg - 08-22-2012

3rd page of 1st paper on monocular diplopia is very interesting: "Scott offers a demonstration of diplopia with myopic defocus. He instructs the reader to hold a black thread in front of a bright background at a distance of 2 feet and to focus monocularly on a finger held between the eye and the thread. As the finger is brought closer to the eye (that is, the image of the thread falls further in front of the retina), the thread will blur and then become distinctly double, with the images of the thread becoming increasingly separated as the finger is brought closer to the eye."

This sensation is more like what I experience. The further I am from the traffic light, the more myopic defocused I become and so the images of the light become increasingly separated.

Thank you.


Re: David's method - Find it here! - minjja - 08-23-2012

Quote:One thing Dr. Bates warned about was a subtle mistake of “trying to see”. As you look at each small area, don't make the mistake of trying to force details to pop out or become more visible. Either they will or they won't. You need to learn how to receive the visual data passively instead of mentally reaching out to try to force details to appear.

I´ve read in jacob liberman´s book one great advice: close your eyes for a while and observe your breathing then open your eyes slowly. Dont look at the chart. Let the chart look at you. Dont try to catch anything with your mind. Look at the letter and allow it to come into focus itself.

As I was practising it my eyes were stinging and I had one really great clear flash. Wink
I´ve realised how much I was trying to see even though I was trying not to.


Re: David's method - Find it here! - hammer - 08-23-2012

Halloy,
Thanks for the explanation of the simple fundamental principles.

One thing that I have experimented with lately is bright daylight and looking at details at far distance.
I have a house which is full of windows everywhere, but now I have started to use this instead of thinking that it is a pity.
In the morning I look at far distance where there is bright light, and I shift on the tree tops from branch to branch, and I shift on clouds. I do this because the bright light makes it easier to see clearly at the point you see best (the fovea), due to the "pinhole" effect of the pupil. The bright light thus makes it easier to learn good visual habits. If there is a slight blur on the fovea in dark light then that blur will disappear in bright light. So the bright light prevents staring, you see !? Researchers believe in dopamine that prevents eye elongation, but maybe they have gotten it all wrong there. I still believe in my simple theory, and it is logical when it comes to Davids/Bates method as well. ;D


Re: David's method - Find it here! - Lex - 09-02-2012

David,

Thanks you for explaining the method so clearly. I think it's a really valuable piece of information. After reading through it though, it strikes me that you don't really mention the eye muscles, which according to Bates are so important in accommodation of the eyes. Reading your method, I feel that seeing is much more of a mental skill than anything else.

Where in your opinion does the eye muscle tension theory that Bates writes so much about fit in ? I mean : will using your method automatically make the eye muscles release tension ?

Thanks,
Lex