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Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - toki-sama - 11-18-2012
Hi all,
I know there's been a lot of discussion and controversy around the idea of plus lens therapy, and there are theories that it can cause cataracts. But I'm wondering how valid this theory is for people who are doing plus lens therapy along with the Bates method. I've read that in some cases, the Bates method can help to prevent and cure cataracts. I assume this is by way of learning to relax your mind and remove strain from your eyes.
Last year I started doing plus lens therapy for a while and got pretty good results, but I stopped after reading on these forums that it could cause serious eye problems. Though during my time with it, my vision improved significantly and I kept much of the improvement after stopping. I've been stuck for a little while in regards to my progress and was thinking about picking up my plus lens for an hour or so a day, while for the rest of the day implementing the good vision habits taught by Bates and David.
In the book "The Secret of Perfect Vision", the author recommends sessions of plus lens therapy on a daily basis to reverse myopia. If done along side the Bates method, should the dangers proposed about plus lens therapy be as much of a concern?
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - jiminos - 11-19-2012
toki-sama,
so far, those here who are most opposed to the use of plus lenses have failed to provide any evidence in the form of scientific studies to back up their positions. they have provided some anecdotal evidence, but nothing solid, quantifiable or that can be replicated.
by the same token, there seems to be very little scientific support in the way of scientific studies to support the use of plus lenses. the theories are sound, and it looks good "on the drawing board," but, that said, the studies remain absent.
personally, i've had good results with plus lenses. your mileage may vary. if you have had a modicum of success before, there seems to be no reason not to resume.
as always, listen to your eyes.
be well,
jim
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - Pikachu - 11-19-2012
jiminos more or less nailed it. There really haven't been controlled studies or experiments to support or refute plus lens therapy. I personally think that it is like any other technique in vision improvement: It may work for some, do absolutely nothing for others, or even create more problems for the unlucky ones. So it's basically up to you to judge, since you know yourself best. It sounds like you have made some progress with plus lenses, so it might be worth continuing. Just remain aware (as always) and trust your eyes and your body to let you know when something is not right.
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - lfernand - 11-20-2012
You have two persons, one with -3 diopters myopia, and the other with -1.5 myopia.
What would be the difference between bothh while reading if the second person uses a plus 1.5 lenses?
The diopters became equal, its all a matter of how distance each one will read. And the Bates Snellen exercises look like very much to the defocus trainning of the plus lenses.
I think our work here should be to conciliate these things if they are "conciliable", not criticize without basis.
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - lou_deg - 11-20-2012
lfernand Wrote:You have two persons, one with -3 diopters myopia, and the other with -1.5 myopia. What would be the difference between both while reading if the second person uses a plus 1.5 lenses?The myope numbers are used for distance vision. The plus lens number is used for near vision. They probably do not mix together that simply. I would guess the person who has to wear the plus lens would feel discomfort (but perhaps only initially?) when reading.
toki-sama, there are very few members in this forum who post about the plus lens method. Apparently there is a right way of doing it (helped some) and a wrong way to do it (harmed some). It would be good if you can find a forum that has a lot of plus lens users and get more information as to how to use it in a safe way. You need to be very cautious when using something unnatural in front of your eyes, either minus or plus lens. It would be so straightforward if vision works by arithmetic and we can clear a minus with a plus, which sounds more concrete than using our imagination. What was the improvement that you gained using the plus lens method? -Lou
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - lfernand - 11-20-2012
lou_deg Wrote:lfernand Wrote:You have two persons, one with -3 diopters myopia, and the other with -1.5 myopia. What would be the difference between both while reading if the second person uses a plus 1.5 lenses?The myope numbers are used for distance vision. The plus lens number is used for near vision. They probably do not mix together that simply. I would guess the person who has to wear the plus lens would feel discomfort (but perhaps only initially?) when reading.
I have minus seven prescription and I use a 4 glasses to read (and also during the day), at the beggining I experienced some headaches, but now I m used to and didnt have any problems.
The error of refraction ( where the image forms in relation to the retina ) is the same to me, and to both cases I cited on the previous post. The guy who has -1.5 diopters have the image formed closer to the retina, but when he puts the plus lenses he become a -3 myopic when looking trough the plus lenses.
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - toki-sama - 11-20-2012
Thanks for the responses everyone.
Lou,
I agree that there's a right way of doing it and a wrong way, though unfortunately I have yet to see anyone define what the wrong way is. It's most likely something that users of plus lens therapy haven't considered, since the book that's likely responsible for most plus lens recruits (the secret of perfection vision) covers only little, if any of the bates method. It's my theory that the "wrong way" of using plus lenses would be for them to be used for long periods of time, and used without keeping in mind and implementing good vision habits and understanding how to relieve and prevent tension and stress of the eyes and mind.
I believe in most of the plus lens related cataract cases I've read, people have used the lenses for long periods of time. The theory behind plus lenses is that by wearing them, your eyes will begin to change shape to accommodate for the refraction in the lens. For myopia, this would mean the chamber of your eye would begin to shorten. Perhaps too much constant pressure from this action while using plus lenses could be the culprit for causing cataracts? I don't know enough to say if this is the case, or even if it's possible, but I'm convince that plus-lens induced cataracts, if they exist, would be caused by too much stress on some part of the eye, which seems very logical since putting undue stress on any part of the body for long periods of time would have degenerative effects, I imagine this is especially true for an organ as sensitive as the eye. And considering that the Bates method has been used for cataracts, this must be the case.
Lately, I've begun to think that no one method can single handedly correct myopia. It's my theory that the only way to achieve 20/20 vision is to a combination of different methods. Plus lens therapy, the Bates method, and Davids method all touch on different, important facets of the vision improvement process. And after reading David's theory, I've realize that just plus lenses alone are nothing but a short-term cheat, similar to wearing negative corrective lenses. You see things better, but you don't centralize, shift, or even pay attention to what it is your looking at, so you may not keep all of the clarity you gain.
To answer you question, Lou, after using plus lenses for about an hour I always had a very noticeable increase in vision, which would stay fairly sharp for a while, and eventually all but some of it would fade. Though. after I stopped using the lenses all together, I was still able to see things better than I'd started, even to this day.
Looking back on things, I wasn't really using them as they should have been. The author of the book I mentioned earlier recommended training with plus lenses exclusively for an hour or two a day, pushing your focusing ability to it's limit in order for your eyes to adapt and change shape. I didn't have much free time for reading so I would just use them for a few hours while working on the computer. I'm certain my vision would have experience much greater improvements had I actually practiced the regime outlined in the book.
Thanks for reading
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - lou_deg - 11-20-2012
lfernand, how confident are you that myopia is due to elongation of the eye? If a plus lens will induce the chamber of the eye to shorten, that will certainly help focus the image on the retina. But is this the natural state for normal vision? If myopia is not due to elongation, then to see clearly will require dependence on the use of a plus lens to maintain the contracted, but clear, state.
Good luck. I am interested in your progress as my wife is -7.5D, similar to yours.
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - Pikachu - 11-20-2012
toki-sama Wrote:Lately, I've begun to think that no one method can single handedly correct myopia. It's my theory that the only way to achieve 20/20 vision is to a combination of different methods. Plus lens therapy, the Bates method, and Davids method all touch on different, important facets of the vision improvement process. And after reading David's theory, I've realize that just plus lenses alone are nothing but a short-term cheat, similar to wearing negative corrective lenses. You see things better, but you don't centralize, shift, or even pay attention to what it is your looking at, so you may not keep all of the clarity you gain.
I don't know about this. I think it's pretty clear that many people have restored their vision to 20/20 or better with the Bates method alone. I can't speak for the other methods, but I imagine that if one looked hard enough, he/she could find people who used just plus lens therapy, etc. In fact, I think in the case of the Bates method, one doesn't even have to master multiple techniques to restore their vision. There are the stories of people who practice palming almost exclusively, those who do almost nothing but swinging, and those who practice only with fine print. It's been mentioned before in the forums, and I tend to agree with it: All you need to do to improve your vision is to master one technique. Just one.
That said, I think that we need to be open to as many of these techniques as possible. What works for one may not work for another. Regarding plus lens therapy, the only real controversy I see with it is the use of lenses, which seems to contradict the Bates principle of wearing corrective lenses as rarely as possible. For this reason, I don't think it can be considered to be encompassed by the Bates method, but it can nonetheless be of benefit to people wishing to improve their vision. David's method, in contrast, is mostly an application of the Bates method - another way of approaching the Bates method, if you will. Possibly even an extension of it. In the end though, I don't think these details matter as much as whether or not you can get the improvement you seek.
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - toki-sama - 11-20-2012
Pikachu,
I probably should have been a little less general. I meant that I think, for some, a combination of multiple methods is required. Also, I don't think that plus lenses are necessary for achieving 20/20, but I do think they might help to expedite vision improvement.
The bates method teaches about shifting, relaxation, blinking, and centralization. Davids method fills in some of the blanks, unclear, and unmentioned parts of the Bates method. One thing in particular that I found useful was David's recommendation to pay attention to details of the objects you look at. This has helped me tremendously.
Overall, I think the requirements to achieve perfect vision are:
- Knowledge and implementation of habits outlined the Bates Method
- Implementation of an open focus style of attention (developed/discovered by Les Fehmi, author of the book "The Open Focus Brain", and referenced in the book "Take off your Glasses and See" by Jacon Liberman)
- Paying attention to the details of objects as taught by David. and
- Exercising the eyes[/list:u]
If any of these are missing, I don't think it's possible to have perfect vision. I believe that people who have achieve 20/20 through natural vision improvement have either already been implementing one or more of these aspects habitually, or have by some means begun to unconsciously implement them while improving their vision. I think this may also be the reason why some people experience improvements in months and for others it takes years.
Exercising the eyes is a good example of what I think is a common missing component. After my first time performing the eye exercises outline in "The Secret of Perfect Vision", for instance, my gaze instantly became smooth, my vision improved, and the tension I felt around my eyes was significantly reduced, and stayed that way for as long as I continued to refrain from doing things that stressed my vision. This is not something I've read about in any of my Bates books nor on many Bates related websites.
Open focus is another good example. It's a term used to describe a soft, open, and relaxed style of attention which is taught and discussed in the book "The Open Focus Brain". One of the ways of entering this style of attention is by imagining empty space and the space around, between, and throughout objects (could this be what is achieved when imagining the darkness while palming?). I think this style of attention is something by people pick up on practicing the bates method, and I also think that it's something most people may only scratch the surface of. I've found that effects such as oppositional movement and mind, body, and eye relaxation seem to be naturally present when entering this style of attention. I also think that this style of attention is what palming helps to bring about, what helps natural vision students to maintain their vision improvements, and what helps people with perfect vision to never require corrective lenses.
At any rate, these are just my theories. I don't imagine all this being true for every single person, but it's true for me... at least for now.
Thanks for reading.
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - lfernand - 11-21-2012
lou_deg Wrote:lfernand, how confident are you that myopia is due to elongation of the eye? If a plus lens will induce the chamber of the eye to shorten, that will certainly help focus the image on the retina. But is this the natural state for normal vision? If myopia is not due to elongation, then to see clearly will require dependence on the use of a plus lens to maintain the contracted, but clear, state.
Good luck. I am interested in your progress as my wife is -7.5D, similar to yours.
Thank you for wish me look. Unfortunatelly I cant go without glasses yet, so my progress is small (I didnt measure but I believe no more than 1 diopter), but those who recovered partially from high diopters say it is a slow process, if I recover 1 diopter by year in seven years I am cured, thats not bad if true.
You are misunderstanding some things, plus lenses are used to see worst, not see better (except for those who have hyperopia), and they are used for close work to prevent accommodation in a certain degree and thus the myopia progression. I dont know if they help to shorten the eye ball, but people who believe that close work is the main cause of myopia theorize that it helps. And some people with very low myopia said they were able to revert it with plus lenses. Not using all the time, but most for close work.
The elongation of the eye or not doesnt matter, what really matter is the diopters that correct perfectly the refraction error. They show exactly what is the refraction error of the eye at the moment of the test, in the conditions present at the moment.
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - clarknight - 11-22-2012
You can read all my posts warning about the dangers of Plus Lens so I wonât repeat it all here.
The Plus Lens method does cause cataract and other eye problems, including tearing the retina, fluid, blood leaking in the retina. The vitreous, other areas may be effected. Plus Lenses will not fix the reason you have Myopia; tension, strain in the mind/brain, eye muscles. It will increase it. The Plus Lens will only add a new EXTRA type of strain in the brain, eyes and eye muscles and try to force the recti muscles to become more tense and pull the eye into a shortened shape to fit the prescription in the Plus Lens. (Itâs not a natural, normal round eye.) This also adds more tension to the obliques. Also the recti, oblique and ciliary will be fighting against eachother, working in an imbalanced manner. The muscle tension, dysfunction causes tension, pulling, stretching on/in the eye, retina, lens... and can impair eye circulation, cause the retina, lens to pull, stretch, develop injury. Astigmatism is a common result of Plus Lens method due to it causing, increasing tension in the outer and inner eye muscles. Tension can travel into the tear gland, blinking and other eye muscles. Plus lenses goof up the natural function of the lens and the ciliary muscle that controls the lens function of natural accommodation, un-accommodation. Convergence, divergence occurs with and is affected by accommodation, un-accommodation. The iris muscle is connected with the ciliary/lens muscle and circulation passes through these areas. Tension in the muscles, impairing the lens function will also interfere with circulation of blood, fluids, oxygen... in the eye, lens. Eye doctors state they have proven that when the lens changes shape, the ciliary also pulls on the eye and this can cause a slight change in the shape of the eye. (They ask if this is some of what Dr. Bates observed when he saw the eye, sclera, cornea lengthen during accommodation?) This may affect the outer eye muscles, in a good, natural way when the eye is functioning normally but; when the Plus Lens interferes with, impairs the ciliary, lensâ and outer eye muscle function; all these and other natural functions are effected, impaired.
The Bates method alone will return the eye to normal shape, clear eyesight with no risk to eye injury, vision. Reading fine and microscopic print as Dr. Bates teaches will speed the return to normal eye shape and in a safe, natural way. It also improves distant vision as it improves close vision.
You can also use the correct Vision Habits Card here; <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cleareyesight.info/id35.html">http://cleareyesight.info/id35.html</a><!-- m -->
Natural close and far accommodation, un-accommodation, convergence, divergence vision improvement.
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - toki-sama - 11-22-2012
Clark,
I agree that the Bates method CAN restore the eye to its normal shape, but I also think that something seems to be missing from the common literature people are referring to. Though, I'm not sure exactly what that is, if I did I'd probably already have 20/20 as I've been practicing the bates method for years (albeit on and off).
Anyways, there are quite a few posts containing the key words "bates" and "plus lenses"; too many to sort through. I'm not sure if you've already addressed this in one of your other posts related to the plus lens method, but my question specifically is regarding limited use of the plus method along with the bates method.
I have no doubt that wearing plus lenses for extended periods of time could cause damage to the eye, but is the same true for control training for an hour or two per day, followed by and proceeded with correct vision habits? As I said in my previous posting, I don't believe that plus lenses are a necessary part of vision improvement, but just that they may help to accelerate improvement.
Also, do you have any thoughts regarding eye stretching exercises? They aren't directly related to subject of this thread, but they are a part of the plus lens method outlined in "The Secret of Perfect Vision".
And thanks for the link. I haven't seen the page you linked me to specifically, but I've known about your work for sometime now; a good while before I joined this forum. Your work is greatly appreciated.
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - clarknight - 11-23-2012
Hi toki-sama,
My experience with the method is; Aldous Huxley's book âThe Art of Seeingâ in 1974 and it worked fast. I used it occasionally to do a tune-up. Maybe misinterpreted it; I did only shifting and what I call switching; shifting on objects at close and far distances in line with eachother. See my posts on; âswitching close and far'
It kept the vision at 20/20 with some better and if the vision went to 20/30, maybe 40; I got it back to 20/20 and better with only 1-2 days practice; 10-20 min a day. Often only needed do this 1-3 days year every 1-3 years. Did shifting as a normal practice but only if something was blurry.
Age 40, presbyopia; cured by Thomas Quackenbush book âRelearning To See...â then took his class; learned how to see clearer than 20/20 and when stay off computer all day, eat right; small 10 line at 30-40 feet is clear. Fine print clear and night vision great! Vision naturally fluctuates, Dr. Bates teaches that. Just avoid all glasses and the visual system always goes back to its best level.
I donât advise plus lens even limited. It will interfere with the natural, normal things that are happening in the brain, eyes due to Bates Method practice. There is always a danger of injury when using the plus lens, its opposite of what the Bates method does and also; if there is any lowered eye health due to wearing any type glasses the plus lens can increase it.
Eye stretches I donât find helpful. I think people know the plus lens tenses the eye muscles and they try to find a way to undo this. I think it causes more tension and is also like exercising or stretching when the muscles are tight, strained. The Bates Method relaxes the eye muscles and improves the eyes shape as long as the plus lens is not being used. Also; the minus lens must not be strong and no lenses is best. Just relax and let the eyes move naturally. Some Yoga eye stretches seem ok, but not to overdo. Thereâs a video by Paul McCartney on YouTube; he shows it in a relaxed way, no force and done a short time.
I teach in a way thatâs Bates Method with a bit of that switching exercise. Its somewhat like Behavioral Optometry but with Bates practices added. Shifting, relaxation.... when switching instead of just robotic drill type switching close and far.
The rest is basically like David teaches and Thomas Quackenbush; relaxed natural vision all the time; no practice, just use the vision correct but without concentrating on, not worrying about the eyes, clarity of vision. Be patient; your vision may take longer to improve, its that way for some people but if you do it right, you will get there and know the eyes are healthy and you keep what you achieved. Have you tried EFT? Color breathing...
You can see all my books free on GoogleBooks. They are not as clear as the Paperbacks in full view but the pictures will help you learn quickly. You can also listen to Dr. Bates Magazines here with the translator; English to English, then click the speaker button; <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cleareyesight.info/naturalvisionimprovementoriginalandmodernbatesmethod/">http://www.cleareyesight.info/naturalvi ... tesmethod/</a><!-- m -->
This and my other website are in my will to David; the magazines on the website and books were created from his Better Eyesight Magazine PDF he used to sell on here. I used it to do OPCR and to check spelling.
If you want more help; test the microphone on Chat. I canât type too much due to neck injury.
Mary
Re: Plus Lens therapy in combination with the Bates method - lou_deg - 11-26-2012
lfernand Wrote:what really matter is the diopters that correct perfectly the refraction error. They show exactly what is the refraction error of the eye at the moment of the test, in the conditions present at the moment.At some point in history, a myope figured out that a minus lens helped him see clearly. It didn't matter that strain is the cause of myopia and glasses doesn't remove the strain, but that the glasses treated the symptom and helps you see clearly. Then can we really judge how good our vision is by use of lenses (through measure of diopters)? I'm not so certain that measuring diopters is truly relevant for judging vision improvement. Just because you see clearer doesn't mean your eyes are working properly.
Then, the plus lens is used to counter the ill effects of wearing the minus lens. Does the plus clear the minus effects? How does plus lens affect the underlying strain that causes myopia...harms, helps, or no effect?