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+--- Thread: Farsightedness (/showthread.php?tid=47)
Re: Farsightedness - jiminos - 11-01-2012
agreed. it would not hurt him to study up a bit. but, his emphasis is on a different approach.
or another way of looking at it....
he doesn't appear to be well schooled in Bates, but... on the other hand.... most of us are not well schooled on what he does....
be well,
jim
Re: Farsightedness - arocarty - 11-02-2012
jiminos Wrote:e doesn't appear to be well schooled in Bates, but... on the other hand.... most of us are not well schooled on what he does....
Yet he quickly, inaccurately pans Bates, using it as a main comparison/contrast to support his own position. That make me a little skeptical about any other theory he wants to propose.
Regards,
Andrew
Re: Farsightedness - jiminos - 11-02-2012
Andrew, it seems like you may have missed my point, but that is okay.
you don't have to like him or his method. nor do you have to believe in its efficacy or lack thereof. that is one of the very cool things about pursuing vision improvement. there are many ways/approaches to vision improvement. we each get to choose something with with we are comfortable.
perhaps, the best approach is to avoid recommending one method over another. personally, i have not tried every method out there. so, in all honesty, i cannot say that any one particular approach is best or worst. until i have tried them all, i can't make that assessment. i can only speak to what i personally have done. to speak to anything else is not honest, imho.
be well,
jim
Re: Farsightedness - lou_deg - 11-02-2012
It's nice to read success stories. Thanks.
Bifocal Wrote:Here is the website(I had the same expression as the blonde in the website when I tried using a plus lens also. Why is that picture there? Eye candy?)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://gettingstronger.org/2010/07/improve-eyesight-and-throw-away-your-glasses/">http://gettingstronger.org/2010/07/impr ... r-glasses/</a><!-- m -->
I realize that the plus lens is used to counter the strain from near vision work which leads to elongation of the eyeball. The extra stress (blur) provided by the plus lens is used to stimulate the eyeball to shorten. But do we really need it when we can easily produce stress on our own (ex: blur by reading small print or at a farther distance...and use Bates, imagination blindness remedies)?
Re: Farsightedness - jiminos - 11-02-2012
maybe "Do we really need it?" is not the right question. interesting word, need is. one could as easily ask, "Do we really want it?" some will. some won't.
to each, his own.
be well,
jim
Re: Farsightedness - arocarty - 11-03-2012
jiminos Wrote:Andrew, it seems like you may have missed my point, but that is okay.
you don't have to like him or his method. nor do you have to believe in its efficacy or lack thereof. .
No, I just didn't care for how he pans Bates in an ignorant manner, and uses that as support for his own theory. As far as the rest of what he writes, I don't really care, he can believe whatever he wants, as long as it doesn't mislead or cause harm to anyone's vision.
Regards,
Andrew
Re: Farsightedness - clarknight - 11-03-2012
Nancy Wrote:Jim, Otis was banned from here I think mostly because of his ranting about plus lens therapy being the solution to myopia increasing, and SECOND OPINION ODs (he wrote in capitals a lot and I always felt like he was screaming at me). He had pretty severe myopia once himself, and had a cataract operation to implant corrective lenses to "fix" it, and now uses plus lenses to maintain his current level of vision. So I guess he thought it would work for everyone else too -- I really do believe he is well-intentioned. Clark/Mary was unaware of Otis's eye surgery until I pointed it out (it was kind of buried in one of his posts), and may have wrongly concluded that the plus lens therapy caused his cataracts. (Clark/Mary, I'm only guessing about this, so please feel free to set the record straight.) In my admittedly limited experience, cataracts often arise from too strong minus lenses and straining for distance vision. And I know once many formerly clear-sighted older people get a reading glasses (plus) prescription, they soon often need a minus lens for distance as well, the bifocals situation. I have a friend who is -9 with beginning cataracts, and my behavioral optometrist told her once that she did not want to see so much, extreme nearsightedness wasn't enough, she had to give herself cataracts to blur out the world!Hey Nancy; I am still trying to get the truth out of him, no answer. I posed as someone else on the groups and asked when he developed the cataracts; before or after the Plus Lens. I read somewhere he had 2 cataract surgeries and lasik for astigmatism. Its buried in those posts I gave you and others. I gave up on investigating this because he wont give exact dates... and wont admit to the surgeries unless pressured. I could find the dates if I went back though all the posts I read but am busy with new books, videos and staying with positive people, Bates method only. Maybe you can find time to do this if you want; let me know the results and send the posts. It may be in the ones I gave you. Too stressful to get back into communicating with Otis but this whole thing has enlightened people to the harm Plus Lens can cause so thank you for peeking my interest about a year ago. I know from experience that many of the people who contact me that have tried the Plus Lens or just use reading glasses have had cataract or retina problems develop after the Plus Lens, reading glasses. Otis was on a yahoo or Google group where a Bates teacher posts. She got in a argument with people as she supported Otis and the use of Plus Lens. She is a really nice person. About 6 months later she posts that her vision has become impaired and now wears glasses. She is returning to the Bates method. Plus lenses cause a lot, most of tension in the recti and lens/ciliary muscles. Minus the most tension in the oblique. Both cause tension in all eye muscles and the lens muscle. Wearing either type causes pressure, tension, pulling in the eye, lens, retina. I truly wish Otis would quit the Plus Lens before he causes more problems in his visual system. Water (kindness) can change a stone but it takes time.
In any case, I agree with you that it hasn't been proven that plus lenses cause cataracts, and I don't think we should be saying they do. I hope this little history lesson helps add light and clarity, not more confusion!
Final point: whenever I think about cataracts, I picture Dr. Bates squeezing the fish eyeball to cause cloudiness of the lens, then releasing the pressure to let it clear up. Cataracts, like other vision problems, are from strain, pure and simple. And yes, we usually strain to some degree when we adjust our vision to look through any lenses.
Re: Farsightedness - clarknight - 11-03-2012
Nancy Wrote:Jim, Otis was banned from here I think mostly because of his ranting about plus lens therapy being the solution to myopia increasing, and SECOND OPINION ODs (he wrote in capitals a lot and I always felt like he was screaming at me). He had pretty severe myopia once himself, and had a cataract operation to implant corrective lenses to "fix" it, and now uses plus lenses to maintain his current level of vision. So I guess he thought it would work for everyone else too -- I really do believe he is well-intentioned. Clark/Mary was unaware of Otis's eye surgery until I pointed it out (it was kind of buried in one of his posts), and may have wrongly concluded that the plus lens therapy caused his cataracts. (Clark/Mary, I'm only guessing about this, so please feel free to set the record straight.) In my admittedly limited experience, cataracts often arise from too strong minus lenses and straining for distance vision. And I know once many formerly clear-sighted older people get a reading glasses (plus) prescription, they soon often need a minus lens for distance as well, the bifocals situation. I have a friend who is -9 with beginning cataracts, and my behavioral optometrist told her once that she did not want to see so much, extreme nearsightedness wasn't enough, she had to give herself cataracts to blur out the world! Agree minus also causes cataract...
In any case, I agree with you that it hasn't been proven that plus lenses cause cataracts, and I don't think we should be saying they do. I hope this little history lesson helps add light and clarity, not more confusion!
Final point: whenever I think about cataracts, I picture Dr. Bates squeezing the fish eyeball to cause cloudiness of the lens, then releasing the pressure to let it clear up. Cataracts, like other vision problems, are from strain, pure and simple. And yes, we usually strain to some degree when we adjust our vision to look through any lenses.
Re: Farsightedness - clarknight - 11-03-2012
lou_deg Wrote:It's nice to read success stories. Thanks.Agree; reading the fine print changes the eyes shape to normal in a healthy, natural way.
Bifocal Wrote:Here is the website(I had the same expression as the blonde in the website when I tried using a plus lens also. Why is that picture there? Eye candy?)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://gettingstronger.org/2010/07/improve-eyesight-and-throw-away-your-glasses/">http://gettingstronger.org/2010/07/impr ... r-glasses/</a><!-- m -->
I realize that the plus lens is used to counter the strain from near vision work which leads to elongation of the eyeball. The extra stress (blur) provided by the plus lens is used to stimulate the eyeball to shorten. But do we really need it when we can easily produce stress on our own (ex: blur by reading small print or at a farther distance...and use Bates, imagination blindness remedies)?
Re: Farsightedness - clarknight - 11-03-2012
Hi Nancy; I found one of those old Otis posts. Will look for the rest when have time to clear my reputation;
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Myopiafree2/message/3435
Shows date Otis's posts for one of his cataract surgeries; july, 2009, says he had surgery 9 months prior, about Oct, 2008.
He joined iblindness Forum on July 31, 2006 and you can see part of his old posts; he's talkiing about the harm of the minus...
Maybe joined other groups earlier than 2006 so will check and see if he talked about and used plus lens back then. Hes been banned from a few groups so his entire posts may not show.
I also found that other post saying he had 2 surgerys for cataract; Thu Nov 13, 2008; http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Myopiafree2/message/2510 These posts definitely show he developed cataract a second time after using the plus lens method. Trying to find date of first cataract surgery and first use of plus lens.
Also see; https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/sci.med.vision/FP_ZYMkntfk
And here where a person and kids were harmed by otis plus lens advice; http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Sci/sci.med.vision/2011-10/msg00164.html :-[
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/sci.med.vision/otis$20brown$20posts%7Csort:relevance/sci.med.vision/TyH0uV7fmSY/sGaGF3n391oJ
Thats enough research for this year.
Nancy; Thanks for pushing me to get this done. So busy, too many students...
Join me on Skype sometime and talk to some of them with me? Been directing them here from Skype and e-mail so maybe they will sign on here for the chat tomorrow.
Mary
Re: Farsightedness - clarknight - 11-04-2012
From i-see.org website; 'How to avoid nearsightedness: A scientific study of the normal eye's behavior' - Otis S. Brown 1989 (first edition). Reprinted and expanded in 1995 and 1999. Does advise Plus Lens Method in the book. But in which edition? Did he develop cataract before or after 1989, before or after using plus lens method and how long did he use Plus Lens before publishing the 1st book?
Re: Farsightedness - clarknight - 11-04-2012
clarknight Wrote:From i-see.org website; 'How to avoid nearsightedness: A scientific study of the normal eye's behavior' - Otis S. Brown 1989 (first edition). Reprinted and expanded in 1995 and 1999. Does advise Plus Lens Method in the book. But in which edition? Did he develop cataract before or after 1989, before or after using plus lens method and how long did he use Plus Lens before publishing the 1st book?
From; http://www.varioustopics.com/medicine-vision/903269-otis-browns-view-of-myopia.html
Scroll down page; Otis starts first interest in Plus Lens at age 28 from studing Dr. Jacob Raphaelson.
Avoid the Pus Lens method. It injures the eyes and vision.
Re: Farsightedness - Bifocal - 11-04-2012
clarknight
You keep insisting that it was plus lenses that caused his cataracts,but you offer no proof of that.
Throughout the world there are millions of people that develop cataracts.Some wear minus glasses,others plus glasses.and still others wear no glasses at all.
The fact of the matter is that you can not prove what causes cataracts.
Re: Farsightedness - Pikachu - 11-04-2012
Well, it might be a stretch to say that it is impossible to find what causes cataracts. But I do agree that the plus lens-cataracts connection does not seem to be a terribly strong one. I haven't done the research myself, so maybe there's something out there that has stronger evidence, but one case, or even a handful of cases, probably isn't enough to say that the use of plus lenses causes cataracts. I'm not even sure if it's reasonable to say that plus lenses increase the chance of developing cataracts. It's akin to saying that reading/video games/you name it cause myopia. But if that were the case, then all people who read books should develop myopia, yet that is not the case.
clarknight: I very much appreciate the dedication you have to vision improvement and I enjoy reading your posts, but I'm a little skeptical of how you are coming to the conclusion that plus lenses are absolutely bad. No one's disputing that it's not the Bates method (because it's not), and I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that some people have had some very bad experiences with plus lenses (as with anything else in vision improvement), but to say that it is 100% damaging seems a bit much to me. I'm sorry if you or people you know have had problems with plus lenses, but I hope you understand that from a purely objective standpoint, it is difficult to support your claim when there are cases of both success and failure with the plus lens method.
That said, it is also probably incorrect to say that the plus lens method works in all cases, or some similar claim. But I don't recall anyone here making that claim (at least, not in the posts I've read through). I think that the plus lens method should be treated like any other: if it works for you, great. If it doesn't, move on. If you don't think it's worth whatever risk might be involved, try something else. I personally wouldn't try it and I am quite skeptical of it, but I think it's a judgment call.
Re: Farsightedness - clarknight - 11-05-2012
Hi to everyone,
Last night the man that runs the website bifocal and jiminos link to said in a e-mail Otis is a welcome and frequent poster there. He told me Otis says his cataracts are age related. He won't admit that Plus Lens caused the two cases of cataract developement. They demand scientific studies on people using the plus lens to see if, to prove they develope eye injury. Reading glasses are Plus Lens and the Plus Lens method is worse, quickly impairs close viison, then eventually far vision. Note that seniors (and others young and older) wearing reading glasses a few years, even a few months end up needing stronger glasses and far vision also starts to blur. After these conditions advance other eye problems; cataract, retina injury, astigmatism... develop. The Plus Lens guys have eye doctors on their side because most doctors want to sell more, sronger prescriptions, then eye surgeries. Lot of money here. That's why its hard to find a study done by doctors showing the harm any type of eyeglasses, minus or plus cause and harm eye surgeries cause.
People ask for proof then after I spend time re-investigating, posting the eveidence they still want to advise this dangerous method. Otis didn't develop the eye problems until after using the Plus Lens method for many years. It hurts people!
I do feel sorry for Otis; if he had not met that doctor advising plus lens when he was in his twenties, if he had met a Bates Teacher instead he may have obtained clear vison and became a pilot back then as he wanted and maybe a Bates teacher. He was brainwashed by the eye doctors who then made alot of money selling him glasses, then eye surgeries, 3 that I know of. In his childhood, eye doctors selling him minus lenses also impaired his vision and probally his right to a happy youth. This affects the brains best function, reason, emotions; he easily belived the Plus Lens doctor and his mind locked into it for life even after he developed eye damage.
I will be creating that 'Harmful Methods To Avoid' warning article PDF for David soon so he can post it on the website, 'after he checks it'. This way at least most people will read it and can know what to avoid, to avoid people occasionally sneaking on here to sell the plus lens... I've been very busy wriiting, teaching, creating new videos, baby sitting and working so have put off doing this but I will put aside the books, videos until this PDF is done.
David keeps a eagles eye on this Forum and won't allow dangerous methods to be posted but it is an endless job, like trying to disipline spoiled or naive children! It's only 1 percent, maybe lower of all posters that try to advise this method but David has to read every post, every day to check. Wow!
Avoid the Plus Lens Method. Go to the google sci-med and other websites, groups to read more posts by other people stating they and their childrens vision have been injured by the Plus Lens method. There are also eye doctors on there speaking up about the Plus Lens.