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This week my dreams became sharper and more realistic than ever before in my life.  I could see street signs a bit clearer in my dreams than in real life, and I could chose my actions and what i say in my dreams.  This never happened before.  How is this so?  Is it because of the bates method?

Also, Im just an observer in my dream and I watch people do stuff.  That was before I did the bates method.
Hey that happens to me a lot.
Wow Otter!

I think that the experience you are referring to is a dream state called lucidity. This is where you switch from complete unawareness of being in a dream, to an awareness that you are dreaming and you are not in the external, outside world. This is a pretty amazing thing, and I am very impressed to hear you've managed to attain lucidity -- it is not an easy thing to do! In fact, I have just been getting into this stuff myself. AAMOF I recently bought this cool book called 'Exploring the World of Lucid Dreams' by Stephen LaBerge which gives you a guide on how to become lucid. I highly recommend it if you are interested in attaining further control of your dream world. Here is an excellent FAQ if you wish to read into it a little: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=""></a><!-- m -->

Quote:my dreams became sharper and more realistic than ever before in my life

Yes, this sounds familiar. From what I have read on the subject, it seems like this sort of experience (heightened awareness of senses and perception) is very common in the transition from the normal to lucidity state.

It is also a common phenomenon for people to have 'beginner's luck' where, upon hearing that it is possible to enter the lucid dream state, or even if a person for whatever reason, gains a heightened interested in remembering their dreams, this has an affect on the person so that when they are dreaming they suddenly remember about lucid dreaming during their sleep, and 'wake up' inside their dreams. I thought I should mention this, because yesterday Paul and waserbund were talking about dreams and lucid dreaming. Maybe this caused you to gain a heightened interest in your dreams, and thus you became lucid.

Quote:How is this so?  Is it because of the bates method?

Your remark is very interesting; I really do think the Bates method could have had something to do with your experience -- by relaxing your mind and practicing you were able to gain a new level of control over your conscious and unconscious states. In addition, I believe that perhaps you have been placing an emphasis in modification of your unconscious habits, i.e. breathing, blinking, and eye movements. Prior to this, you were not thinking about your unconscious mind and therefore there was no requirement to engage it. Perhaps practice of Dr. Bates' techniques has 'awakened' your subconsciousness allowing you to enter your dreams, not as an observer but as a controller. This would seem to make absolute perfect sense to me.  Thank you for mentioning this Otter, as it is very interesting!

Hope this explains a little for you,

- Kaze
No, thank YOU for describing me about this.  But are you sure that it's my eyesight improvement that led to this lucidity?  I've seen a little improvement in clarity, but it could have been better if i didn't do lots of close work. 

One time, when I woke up in the middle of the night, my eyes were closed and i couldnt move at all.  I think i was half asleep.  I tried to stay awake and open my eyes and move my arm.  I hate it when these thingshappen.  I finally opened my eyes and was awake.
Lucid dreaming and astral projection is interesting stuff. It's like a whole world to explore. I don't know what triggers it spontaneously like that. But something changed at the time to make you more aware of yourself or move your state of consciousness a bit.

The other night I was pulling away from my body and was frozen except my eyes seemed to be able to open and see, as I basically had the tilted view of the part of the room I was facing while lying on my side. So I was pushing my astral body up without my visual orientation changing. Needless to say, it was annoying and disorienting, and I was trying to decide whether to open or close my eyes, because at least with my eyes open I could see SOMETHING that was at least one point of view of the room I was in. It threw off my orientation so much that I couldn't keep my balance as I struggled to my feet, so that combined with the suction towards my physical body kept me from getting up, and I ended up drifting to normal sleep after half a minute.

A day or two before, I was taking a nap, and as I was waking, I heard some noises, and I sort of stopped there, like "Wait a minute, let's see what this is all about." It was just some small noises, like the rustling of clothes. It wasn't alarming at all. I had the idea that these sounds I wouldn't be hearing usually, so I moved more towards waking and confirmed that I wasn't physically hearing those things, and then I sort of moved my consciousness back and heard them again, before finally waking completely and they disappeared again. So, again, the nonphysical is a whole world to explore, or a whole dimension or something.

And like Kaze said, there's a hell of a lot to be said for beginner's luck. I left my body the first night after I was convinced that I could do it, and being really convinced that you can do something counts for a lot.

This is a good OBE forum that I've participated in in the past:
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
I've heard about a body part in your brain thats near your ear part.  I can't remember what it's called but it helps you maintain your balance.  Like if you did cartwheels and flips you'd be dizzy and you'd be seeing double.  I think it's because you were laying on your side or were half asleep or something.
Lucidity can be triggered by a lot of things, including food you eat before retiring for the night.  A lot times your subconscious mind tries to trick you out of lucidity by creating what are called false awakenings.  When you achieve consciousness in your dreams, your mind tricks you into thinking that you woke up.  One time I had this happen twice:  I attained lucidity in a dream, and woke up to find myself sleeping in a conference.  The conference seemed very real and I recall thinking to myself "damnit, I can't believe I fell asleep in a conference".  Then, about 2 minutes later I woke up in my room, thinking "damn, my mind has tricked me again".  I got up, and proceeded with my daily activities, and about 10 minutes later I woke up for real real and felt pretty stupid.

Out of body experiences are very interesting too.  There is something very mysterious about them.  I've heard of a small study where a block with letters on one side was placed on the desk quite a ways away from where the subject was sleeping, and turned away as to not be seen.  The subject woke up claiming he had an OBE, and he was able to tell the investigator the letters on the back of the blocks and their sequence!!!  Perhaps it was just a myth that I've overheard.

The funniest thing is asking someone in a lucid dream, whether you are dreaming.  The answers are always interesting.
In real life when you ask someone, you would expect a response along the lines of "are you crazy?", or perhaps give you a weird look and walk away; not that I have tried.  Big Grin
In a lucid dream, when you ask one of the characters they always deny it in a very serious tone, and never imply that you are strange.  I asked a passing-by woman once in my dream, she just said "nope", and continued walking.  Another time I asked a random person getting out of a car on the street.  He said "I'm not going to tell you", he quickly got back into the car and drove away.

This is always my final resort to testing for lucid dreams.  Trying to fly doesn't work for me, dreams are too damn real, unless I am absolutely sure it's a dream. The light switch method, in which you confuse the light switch, I haven't tried.  There is a mirror-portal method, in which you step into the mirror into another world or situation.  I think this is used for changing the topic of your dreams....very cool!.  I haven't tried that either.  Some people report not being able to read in their LDs, but I was easily able to read books and signs.

Are there any other tests which any you have tried?

2 days ago, and I forgot to tell you guys about this, but I dreamed that I was in my backyard.  I grabbed a garden hose and it squirted out some water that made me fly into the air.  I grabbed onto the hose, and even though i was afraid of heights, I had no fear in my dream because I knew I was dreaming.  The hose brought me into my neighbors backyard and I landed without pain.  I got out of the backyard and I saw my former classmates, asking me if I was filipino, and I was.  They showed me a wine cellar which was covered with spiderwebs, in which they cut with scissors to get inside.  I woke up after that.
Below I have posted the excerpt from LaBerge's book describing false awakenings, which really captured my interest. The one thing here that seriously caught my attention here was how,when a subject would fixate his gaze on a point, or stared, he would no longer retain the lucid state and would awaken; This really clicked in my mind when I thought about everything Bates taught on the subject of staring, and how we lose our visual perception when we halt the movement of our eyes/attention/mind. What do you guys think?


Awakening at Will

By Stephen LaBerge, Ph.D. & Howard Rheingold

"My first lucid dream arose from my discovery as a child of five that I could wake myself from frightening dreams by trying to shout "Mother!"" [11]

"I have found a paradoxical-sounding but simple technique for waking at will: "Fall asleep to wake up." Whenever I decide I want to awaken from a  lucid dream, I simply lie down on the nearest dream bed, couch, or cloud, shut my dream eyes, and "go to sleep." The usual result is that I immediately wake up, but sometimes I only dream that I wake up, and when I realize I'm still dreaming, I try again to wake up "for real," sometimes succeeding at once, but sometimes only after an amusing sequence of false awakenings. (B.K., Palo Alto, California) "

"When I was a little girl, about six years old, I came up with a method for awakening myself when dreams got too unpleasant. I don't recall how I came up with the idea, but I would blink my eyes hard three times. This worked well for a while, and got me out of some pretty horrific and surrealistic scenarios, but then something changed and the method began to produce false awakenings. When I once used this technique to end a mildly distasteful dream, only to find myself awakening in my bedroom just before the arrival of a terrible hurricane, and certain that the experience was real, upon actually awakening I decided to abandon the practice. (L.L., Redwood City, California) "

IF THE SECRET to preventing premature awakening is to maintain active participation in the dream, the secret to awakening at will is to withdraw your attention and participation from the dream. Think, daydream, or otherwise  withdraw your attention from the dream, and you are very  likely to awaken.

When five-year-old Alan Worsley called out for his mother in  the physical world, he was directing his attention away from  the dream as well as possibly activating the muscles of vocalization in his sleeping body, which could awaken him.

But nothing could provide a better illustration of the  principle of waking by withdrawing attention from the dream than Beverly Kedzierski's formula "go to sleep to wake up."  After all, what does sleep mean but withdrawal of attention from what is around us?

Another way of withdrawing your participation from the dream  is to cease making the usual rapid eye movements so crucially  characteristic of REM sleep. Tholey has experimented with  fixation on a stationary point during lucid dreams. He found that gaze fixation caused the fixation point to blur,  followed by dissolution of the entire dream scene, and an  awakening within four to twelve seconds. He notes that  experienced subjects can use the intermediate stage of scene  dissolution "to form the dream environment to their own  wishes." [12] Artist and dream  researcher Fariba Bogzaran  describes a very similar technique called "Intentional Focusing," in which she concentrates on an object in her lucid dream until she regains waking consciousness. [13]

However, the examples here show that using methods to awaken  from dreams may lead to false awakenings. Sometimes, the  false awakening can be more disturbing than the original  dream you were trying to escape. In general, it is probably  best not to try to avoid frightening dream images by escaping  to the waking state. Chapter 10 explains why and how you can  benefit from facing nightmares. An example of a good use for  techniques of waking yourself at will from lucid dreams is  for awakening while you still have the events and revelations  of the dream clearly in mind.


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I had a very weird experience last night. I had a regular dream that I was lucid dreaming.

I just had to post this to get it out. In my dream, I fell asleep and had a very strange dream, and all along I knew it was a dream. Then I dreamed I woke up, thinking I had just experienced lucidity. Then I actually woke up, which was the first time I realized that the whole thing was a dream. It was just-- weird.
Oh my god!

That's crazy, because the very same thing happened to me just this Friday! I had a dream I was lucid dreaming, and I was all happy and everything, then I really woke up to find out that I wasn't lucid dreaming but that it was just a dream. Wow, that's freaky how it happened to both of us on the same night. What's more, PrettyPeace, I just checked your profile and realized that you are a capricorn and so I am! Ha! So freaky, but so cool!

Have you read the book: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix? Maybe we are both secretly elites of legillimency (like Voldemort, who's thoughts and emotions were channeled into Harry because of their bond), so we can channel our thoughts to each other. What if there is a connection between us!

??? Big Grin :o

- Kaze
Eragon and Eldest are better than Harry Potter.  They got me pumped.  Eldest is the best book i've ever read, and i stayed up long so i could finish it.
Kazekage Wrote:That's crazy, because the very same thing happened to me just this Friday!
:oYou mentioned Harry Potter! And in my lucid dream within my normal dream, I was in a great rage, trying to convince my dad I could do magic! You know how Harry Potter dreams about what Voldemort's doing? Maybe Voldemort has been trying to obtain lucidity! hehe. And reading your profile-- I just realized you're 15 years old, and I'm 14-- maybe we even know each other! Not that I believe it.
WHOA! I had a VERY similar kind of dream about 1 1/2 weeks ago!!! :o

I was having a very odd dream (my dreams are always extremely weird Big Grin) in which I was at the playground of my old elementary school, and there were a whole bunch of kids around my age playing some weird ball game. Then all of a sudden I saw everybody crowd together and start meditating! O.o So then I joined them and we all closed our eyes and it was just really weird but really awesome lol. Then, while my eyes were closed (both my physical AND dream eyes), I became aware I was dreaming!! And usually, when I realize I'm having a lucid dream, I become really excited and want the dream to last. But this time, even though the dream was awesome so far, I thought, "OMG I'm actually dreaming?! I better wake up ASAP!" LOL (And that decision REALLY annoyed me when I woke up.)

Anyway, I wanted to wake up, but it was kinda hard to. Instead, I actually dreamed that I woke up! I was in my bed and I got up and dreamed that I wrote down my previous dream!! This second dream was pretty long, and the whole time I actually believed I was awake! Big Grin Then I woke up for real.


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