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Going without glasses is dangerous
#16
whats your prescription now . you said you were around (-4.25. -5.75 plus some asig

what are you now

edit : also, I wanted to say, why is it so complicated .

You take your existing prescription, -5 in each eye example, get a reduced pair, -4 in each eye for example.

Then so your eyes adjust and get better, do palming throughout the day. Either in 5 minute sessions frequently or a long one, what ever you want, or both.

When you improve enough, get another pair of reduced lenses, and contnue with the palming, sunning, etc whatever you do.

Easy.

keep a snellen on your wall for progress.
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#17
Hi fuggles!
You need to be ingenious to adapt the bates method to your own case. IT IS ABSOLUTELY NORMAL THAT IF YOU GET FRUSTRATED YOU WILL SEE NOTHING.

When you are frustrated, sad, feel bad, tense, weary, or any words of that kind, you are not in a state where you can get better eyesight. THIS IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT!

I don't agree with Dave that it's a question of age, because I'm still in the numbers that ends by -teen.
It's a question of motivation. You do your best to have good vision habits without being unnatural, you palm, do the long swing, strech youself to be more relaxed physically, and your eyes will do their best to give you all they can give you for the moment.

Calm down and relax! Breathe! Blink/shift! Have a nice day with your brand new improved sight!
-Alexandre
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#18
I am experiencing a similar kind of frustration, but was rather expecting it so it hasn't hit me as hard. I'm driven to speculate that the reason Bates saw bad outcomes in people who continued to use their glasses periodically is that those people would have been the ones with worse eyesight to start with. All visual defects are not created equal.

What I eventually decided to do was carry my current glasses with me and use them at times when there was a real need. Most of the time I can make adaptions (blowing up the text on my computer screen to a legible size, moving the VDU a little closer to me, printing documents in a larger font than usual & so on); other times I can put up with the blur (travelling on foot or by bus, cooking, other chores, TV). I remind myself continually of the people I've known who had far worse vision than I do, even with glasses, and how well they've got along despite this problem.

But when I'm lost because I can't read street names, or in a threatening situation where I can't read another's facial expression or intent, I'm going to put my glasses back on.

One question to the forum: If no glasses is creating tense and scary situations sometimes, isn't it better to put them on for a few minutes? Mightn't the tension of the moment affect the eyes in a worse way than momentarily replacing the glasses now and again?
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#19
fuggles Wrote:who cares ? Im a normal human being that behaves normally. If something doesn't work, I get frustrated, so what ?

For the reasons I have stated, I believe my frustration is justified. I have given genuine reasons.

I have kept my emotions in check and have not said anything absurd or ridiculous. Ive been open and honest.

Ive been calm and kept my posts as simple to understand as possible.

Again. my main point is, going without glasses is simply too dangerous for me, I am going down the path of getting reduced lenses.

Ive been open to ideas and suggestions throughout, yet I dont know why palming doesnt work for me. I hope it does as I get reduced lenses and my eyes adjust.

Maybe my main point got lost in my long post. It was this sentence below, and that you're wasting your time by focusing mostly on glasses and other comparatively inconsequential things.

Your posts over the last year and a half suggest to me that you haven't put any work into carefully practicing any exercises and have limited it to doing a little palming, and you've never tried examining and describing in detail what you're doing in order to seek clarification on what you could be doing better, as I suggest in the "Am I doing this exercise right?" post that's stickied at the top of the forum.

Dave
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#20
Yes, maybe I did palm wrong, and not do it right, but your not answering my point !!

Which is, how am I meant to cross roads, shave etc and see things without glasses. That's my point.


Also, I have improved my palming technique over the last year. Now I warm up my hands before for 30 seconds which really helps . ALways remembering to breathe , and stay grounded.

edit:
But who knows, maybe I am doing all the exercises/natural eye habits whatever you call them all wrong.

I answered your question, now answer mine.
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#21
I'm not an expert here by any means, so hope no-one minds if I jump in & say a couple of things.

Firstly, nothing I have ever accomplished in my not-quite-four decades that was at all worth accomplishing did not involve at least one, and maybe more, episodes of the deepest frustration. I have railed against teachers, peers, and myself. Anything worth doing is... well... it's just hard! Frustration, resentment, self-recrimination--they're all part of the process of getting to where you need to be. I have to reflect that what helped me get through those times was communicating with people who'd been through similar experiences, and could offer patience and understanding.

As a total novice, I'd suggest keeping a pair of glasses around. For me, carrying my glasses in a pocket or bag such that I could put them on if it came to the crunch, actually made me wear them less. If that sounds daft to the people with greater experience, let me explain:

If happy and unstressed, the glassed don't cross my mind. If tired or disturbed, here's what my thought processes look like:

" GLASSES Leaving the house for groceries. Check what we have in the fridge GLASSES, get shopping bags GLASSES find keys GLASSES cash GLASSES cards GLASSES. Take out GLASSES trash, lock GLASSES front door, walk up road GLASSES to pedestrian crossing GLASSES. Take basket GLASSES enter store GLASSES..." and so on.

If I know my glasses are in my pocket should they actually be needed, I hardly think of them.

Unlike Fuggles, things like crossing roads are not too hard for me. If he's struggling, though, mightn't emergency glasses be a good solution until the eye improvements kick in?
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#22
Mordant, good observation about your thought process. That's very much what I was trying to say about focusing on what's important instead of staying focused on the possible need for glasses in situations in the uncertain future. I don't see anything wrong with carrying them for emergencies if it helps you direct your mind towards something other than them.

Dave
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#23
Well as a high myopic I went straight to reduced glasses with about 40% lower prescription. Most things are a blur so my eyes still have to work and I can also lead a normal life. I think my eye sight is improving but I can not always tell from the Snellen as it varies so much during the day.

I have also been going without glasses recently and have noticed around midday is when I get clear flashes. These seem to mainly occur when looking into the distance. I work on computer all day so maybe its the change in environment that triggers the clear flashes.

When I get the clear flashes I am usually relaxed and focusing on a remote object. Then invariably the blur returns.

For me going without glasses means not having clear vision which carries a high cost to me. I like being able to see at least some details even though I know there is a quicker route to the objective - which is no glasses.

My reduced glasses are -2D lower (plus I have around -1D astig in each eye), so quite a jump. As a high myopic I see nothing wrong with wearing reduced glasses as I still have to live a life.

I have no idea whether any of this will actually improve my eyes. The biggest change that I have noticed though is that I can now make my eyes water which I have not been able to do for many many years before.

Best regards, Mike
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#24
Getting and excessive over-prescription -- for years.

As a child, I went to a doctor who believed that the minus was "perfect" -- and very strong at that.

I "suffered" under that treatement. As a result, my vision "stair-cased" down to -7 diopters.

At the age of 14, I began to "wake up" to the Bates concept that the minus was a "bad idea" at best.

So, I essentially refused to accept any more "over-prescription". I had to always pass the DMV test (as I always did -- at 20/40), but I always wore a "reduced" minus lens (necessary to pass the DMV).

The result was that my stair-case myopia stablized. Had I not worked with the "reduced" minus, I am certain my vision could have continued down, with the threat of detached retina when my vision would have reached -14 diotpers or so.

People who can use these preventive methods, before any minus is applied (and work with their Snellens to pass the DMV), are well advised to continue to do so.

When you consistently pass the DMV test, THEN you can discard your minus lens in a reasonable manner. BUt you must be safe.
Just my opinion. Otis
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#25
Hey Otis

I think that we all want to know that there is light (or is that clarity Smile )at the end of the NVI tunnel. If you were at -7D at worst case what is it now and how long did you take to get there.

Thanks, Mike
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#26
Dear Mike,
Subject: It is an "ill wind" that does not blow some "good".
I developed a cataract over the last 30 years. When I reached to point where I could no longer pass the DMV test, I got an "IOL".
That changed my status to +1/2 diopters. (While I don't "like" operations, and would never get Lasik -- this was a matter of "no choice".)
I requested "clear" distant vision -- and agreed to use "readers" for close work. (A compromise of course.) So, I now have 20/20, and use a weak plus 3/4 dioper lens for computer work. I hope to gradually reduce the need for a "plus" when working on the computer. (Bates was correct, even with a "fixed" internal lens, my eyes "accommodate" by 2 diopters -- even as the ODs insist that the eye can never "accommodate" with a fixed internal lens. As always, Bates was right about this issue. Best, Otis
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#27
Answering 9or trying to answer) the question what I mean by dangerois activity. I take driving as dangerous because a little mistake can kill you or someone or badly hurt phisically, if acident happens, as this is manupilatic vehicle under high speed, lots of other factors are involved, you have to read signs, see other cars, pedestrians, etc...

I don't see for example shaving as a dangerous activity, you can't kill your self when shaving (or can you?). You come as closeas possible to the mirror, you cat have magnifying mirror for start with so you see better what you are doing. can you imagine shaving with closed eyes. I belive you would be able to do it without any scratches.

Crossing the street, I think there is a spatial awareness that is helping here but also sound. Sorry if I am wrong, I don't know exactly how much you see without glasses under your -5sph, I am(was) a bit lees mypoic, -1.5sph, but I still feel that yoy can feel the siluette of the car, hear sounds, at least be clever and see what other pedestrains are doing, if any close you, ro go to the traffic lights....

So, what I am talking about here is awareness, being present, and I thing that is what you are lacking. What glasses are giving you is clzarity of linear vision in distance, even that not so perfect. If you awaken other senses and factors I belive you still should be able to manage without glasses most of the day.
Fi you cut yourself by shaving a bit, you stop, and think "I need to see better', then relax, take a deep breath, blink softly, instead of "I have to put my glasses onm". Try, I can't explain enpugh the feeling after you do a walk without glasses, the feeling of freedom and softness and being a part of the world....

But, if you feel you are not safe then protect yourself. I am just saying by wearing glasses constatnly and not doing proper exercises the vision won't get better, but you have to find your way.

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#28
FlowerPower Wrote:Answering 9or trying to answer) the question what I mean by dangerois activity. I take driving as dangerous because a little mistake can kill you or someone or badly hurt phisically, if acident happens, as this is manupilatic vehicle under high speed, lots of other factors are involved, you have to read signs, see other cars, pedestrians, etc...

I don't see for example shaving as a dangerous activity, you can't kill your self when shaving (or can you?). You come as closeas possible to the mirror, you cat have magnifying mirror for start with so you see better what you are doing. can you imagine shaving with closed eyes. I belive you would be able to do it without any scratches.

Crossing the street, I think there is a spatial awareness that is helping here but also sound. Sorry if I am wrong, I don't know exactly how much you see without glasses under your -5sph, I am(was) a bit lees mypoic, -1.5sph, but I still feel that yoy can feel the siluette of the car, hear sounds, at least be clever and see what other pedestrains are doing, if any close you, ro go to the traffic lights....

So, what I am talking about here is awareness, being present, and I thing that is what you are lacking. What glasses are giving you is clzarity of linear vision in distance, even that not so perfect. If you awaken other senses and factors I belive you still should be able to manage without glasses most of the day.
Fi you cut yourself by shaving a bit, you stop, and think "I need to see better', then relax, take a deep breath, blink softly, instead of "I have to put my glasses onm". Try, I can't explain enpugh the feeling after you do a walk without glasses, the feeling of freedom and softness and being a part of the world....

But, if you feel you are not safe then protect yourself. I am just saying by wearing glasses constatnly and not doing proper exercises the vision won't get better, but you have to find your way.



i posted my prescription
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#29
Alexndre Wrote:I don't agree with Dave that it's a question of age, because I'm still in the numbers that ends by -teen.

Right, I didn't mean to imply that anyone in their teens isn't ready. But I struggle to find an explanation for his pattern of consistently avoiding learning the Bates method while thinking he's doing it.

Dave
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#30
Im going to go back to the palming etc.

Ill give it a second chance.

Or is that third chance ??



To answer if Im doing the palming wrong, I dont know ?

I just do it the regular way .

I did mention in a previous post that I think I saw a flash for maybe half a second when palming in front of the snellen.

I dont always palm in front of the snellen.

And , is the question at stake here, ''am i doing palming correctly ''. Thats not the point here.
But I will answer it anyway. theres not much more I can say about it.
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