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notes on looking at details and changing
#16
JMartinC4 Wrote:We got a 40" 1080p HD tv last January. It is great at stimulating clear vision flashes/ing for me. One method I've discovered with it is to look at the background images and activities rather than always focusing on the foreground subjects and things the show is emphasizing. I'd estimate I now spend 50% of the viewing time switching back and forth, looking at the background material, then foreground, ignoring the difference in acuity and astigmatism and blur between my two eyes, adjusting my head/face viewing angle, and resulting in controlled clear flashing.

I just have to tell you a true story (from long time ago, I can laugh about it now) where I noticed that nearsighted people might be afraid of (or even scared to death of) looking at (really be aware of) details.
Hmm,I shouldn't tell you this but, ..., I met a girl once who had very perfect natural eyesight,
actually this lady had much better eyesight than normal, but the thing was that this lady was also a commander Smile .
I was interested in eyesight by then so I noticed how she behaved.
However she was fat, but very beautiful eyes.
I remember that she looked at me and said that I was looking around instead of looking at her into her eyes and she thought that I seemed to be nervous.
She said that I should look at her straight into her eyes, and commanded me to do so,
but I just couldn't look into her eyes for a longer time despite that I actually wanted to look at her eyes,
because I needed to keep track of what was going on around me, looking around was more important actually to me than it was to look at her eyes for a longer time, even if I became frustrated about this and mad at myself for acting in this stupid way.
Details were however important for her obviously as she looked at my eyes for so long time.
Then finally she commanded me to kiss her in the middle of a crowd, and I discovered that this was almost impossible for me to do in the middle of the crowd.
I discovered that I couldn't focus on details, refused and I said to her that I couldn't kiss her in the middle of the crowd because I needed to look around.
Then she said, just relax, she said that she was totally aware of what happened around her, just trust me she said,
I will tell you if something happens around us she said.
I became amazed when she said so because a nearsighted person like me didn't know that you both can be aware of details and the surrounding peripheral at the same time.
Well, that was not easy for a man to allow a girl to warn me about possible dangerous attacks from the crowd around Big Grin ,
but finally I respectfully trusted her as I knew about her very perfect eyesight and I managed to kiss her in the crowd, but it was definitely not easy for me to kiss her in the middle of the crowd (due to fear).
What I think I learnt from this little story is that what I missed was that my side vision (peripheral vision) wasn't even enabled,
thus I had to look around all the time as a bird that always looks around, but a human is not a bird.
Nowadays I am simultaneously aware of both this side vision and the central vision, giving me both central and peripheral awareness.
This story taught me how I should use my awareness, I came to understand this by this embarrassing incident.
My side vision awareness makes me relaxed in mind, and thus I don't have to look around anylonger,
because the sidevision handles it automatically, why then bother mind about it,
and I guess this relaxing state manifests finally in the eyes, even if I need more time to see results as I have just started to experiment with mind when it comes to improving my vision.

Has anyone out there also noticed this relly fear in mind of details ?
Fear of details due to a mind that uses the eyes in a wrong way as the mind has not enabled the peripheral vision when focusing on the details.
Do you think it is a common characteristic for nearsighted people to have a fear of looking at details ? Maybe it is one cause.
Also remark that in this world we are invaded with an infinite amount of information (e.g. internet, news) and just by knowing this you could get a fear of details, the watch dog defends the mind, because you can easily drown in information.
Remark that the side vision seems to have no problem with this infinite amount of information though, thus riskfree to enable sidevision at full range.
#17
hammer,

I think there does exist a common issue with a kind of fear of seeing details. It's an avoidance of the truth of what's there.

And then there's the issue of feeling like you need to avoid intently looking at small details, for fear of being surprised by something in the periphery or being in danger of not noticing something. The fact is it takes a certain amount of time to see and process things - to inspect details and then look at something else - and the way to see more things quickly is not by avoiding that normal time consuming process of seeing.

I don't know why these and other issues seem to all go together, but they do. But when you recognize such an issue, just recognize it and make the decision to reject it, and it'll become dislodged as you keep practicing looking for smaller details.

Dave
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
#18
Wow, actually you guys are saying something! As I was reading this (funny) post, I was able to relax and shift from letter to letter, but I also noticed I was completeley aware of what was happening behind my laptop screen, more so than when I stare (in my usual ways).... I have obviously noticed this phenomenon before, but not consciously.
#19
David Wrote:hammer,

I think there does exist a common issue with a kind of fear of seeing details. It's an avoidance of the truth of what's there.

And then there's the issue of feeling like you need to avoid intently looking at small details, for fear of being surprised by something in the periphery or being in danger of not noticing something. The fact is it takes a certain amount of time to see and process things - to inspect details and then look at something else - and the way to see more things quickly is not by avoiding that normal time consuming process of seeing.

I don't know why these and other issues seem to all go together, but they do. But when you recognize such an issue, just recognize it and make the decision to reject it, and it'll become dislodged as you keep practicing looking for smaller details.

Dave


Thanks Dave,
You wrote that you don't know why these and other issues seem to go together.
I just have tell you what I think is the answer to this question, even if it might be out of the scope,
please watch the link below.
It is maybe about how the universe is constructed, maybe you are feeding info to the so called vacuum,
and maybe you get feedback back from the vacuum as a reply.
If you are really conscious and learn how to be aware of the vacuum, then you might gain certain positive events back.
For instance maybe you get better connection to the vacuum when you observe details with the central vision awareness as you recommends, but I also think simultaneously the peripheral vision awareness improves the connection to the vacuum,
it is all about awareness, consciousness, connecting mind, matter and consciousness together.
Then the vacuum feeds back to your mind a little bit more understanding of objects, littel bit more awareness of objects, and little bit more relaxed and better eyesight adjustment, i.e. vision improves.

You must must watch "Nassim Haramein on synchronicity", please watch the link below !:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkuqDABTMo">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkuqDABTMo</a><!-- m -->

If you wonder what consciousness is then it is about information that connects the world together.

What do you think about the synchronicity explanation to why the issues seem to go together ? Does it make sense ?
#20
David

You asked for feedback. This is a very helpful thread and it is quite clear, to me, what you are getting at. And yes, I got that impression when starting out that you should keep shifting all the time (as it were mechanically), which is a bad habit very easy to learn and it probably still has some effect unfortunately. You mention the intensity felt in the vision when it all clicks. I don't recall anyone else talking about that before, but I experience it. Boy, is it intense!

Sorrisi posted something on her blog a good few months ago about trying to remember what you see as you go around, and I practised this for a bit while going for a walk and found that, surprise surprise, I was paying very little attention to anything. Of course, it's not easy to change the habit of a lifetime, but the problem is is at least stated clearly. Until now, I hadn't realized it was so central.

Most of my practice has been on imagination as this always has immediate results (aside to other readers here: you may feel your imagination isn't great and won't want to do this, but it's precisely because of this that it works for me). I spend a short time doing this at regular intervals throughout the day and then imagine a black dot (ie period/ full stop) to "keep the effect going". Of course, like paying attention to details, I keep forgetting to do this, but pick up the thread again later to build up the habit. On a few occasions I have managed to build up quite a good momentum this way.

This is all really by way of asking you this question. Can your thoughts here on focussing attention on the details be easily combined with imaginging a black period? I mean, at the same time? Or is it better to focus on one of these approaches at a time? In other words are these different (if complementary) paths to the same destination?
#21
Hi sean,

There is a certain momentum, as you say, in that it may take a few minutes for your vision to improve, and it's then that it's critically important that you keep doing it for another several minutes or as long as you can, or you'll lose it and won't have really gained much in the way of adapting to a better style of seeing. If you get distracted or whatever and wait too long before doing it again, you give your mind a chance to confuse you and find a way to screw up the good thing you had going.

Here's why visualizing a period, or anything else you can remember, works to improve your vision. In order to process an image well you have to have looked at it by noticing the smallest details possible, or close to it. If you don't, there's something about how it's processed that doesn't activate the right part of your brain to retain it as a clear image. With glasses it doesn't work so well, because it isn't only about how focused the light rays are, it's also about how you looked at it. It's subtle but very significant. When you visualize something clearly, the fact that it exists clearly in your memory means that you had originally looked at it in the right way, noticing details, and in the act of remembering it, you're really remembering the process you used in seeing it. So it helps. And, I mean, just to point out the exceptions, it's possible to sort of visualize something and not improve your vision with it, either due to the fact that you're not doing it long enough or aren't really visualizing it very clearly. And once you get the idea, it's possible to get your vision clearer just by reminding yourself of the specific thing you learned during that process about what it takes to see or visualize clearly and just apply it rather than having to bring up the period again.

Dave
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
#22
Dave

Thanks for the reply. I don't know why visualization/ imagination helps my sight clear up but I have this idea that it takes my mind off from making my eyes grab at whatever they are looking at. I visualize with my eyes open, more or less remembering a small black object situated elsewhere and unrelated to whatever my eyes are resting on. It's not continuous, my attention keeps returning to the black object, my eyes relax, the breathing deepens, I become aware that hte visual field is clearing up, the black object becomes clearer I think but it gets harder to hold onto it (mental control) presumably what Bates meant when he says that you are "on the horns of a dilemma" if I remember rightly. So I'm not looking for the smallest point, at least not until that stage, as my attention has been on the imagined object up to then. When this imagination exercise works well it is (usually) really quite uncomfortable, not only the tingling and watering in the eyes but mentally, and the better it works the more acute this usually is. I am saying this as I am trying to see what I can understand from this process which I can apply to my eyesight thereafter, apart obviously from the focussed attention, the mental calmness.

With more specific relevance to the subject of this thread I find that the exercise Thinking of a Point in the Exercise Descriptions part of this forum works really really well with this idea of building up a habit of looking for details. It's very simple, and if you don't mind saying, quick and leads onto the looking at detail idea very naturally. I am going to try doing more of this instead of, or even as well as, the imagination exercise and see how it goes. I'd be interested to hear from anyone else who has tried this particular exercise.
#23
I'm going to be more specific. There are many subtle differences in the way you might apply the instructions for looking for details, so it's best to clarify and try to eliminate the wrong ways. Really the more specific I describe it, the more I hope it appears to be even more common sense. Some of the stuff you read everywhere about the Bates method, including here, includes so much stuff about movement and other things that it's like it critically distracts from the most important thing that you have to do. This doesn't have to be hard or confusing - you just have to do it right. I'm really starting to feel like all the stuff people have come up with, including me, with all the metaphors, ideas... most of it just keeps you busy, keeps you entertained, keeps this whole thing interesting and thought-provoking in its implications about other things, but it doesn't do much for you. I've half written an article about that too that I plan on putting on the site, slamming all that stuff. Some of it's useful, but it's got to be weighted right, in the right context, in the right step of the process.

So anyway, back on topic, I'm trying to be more specific, but I'm having trouble thinking of how to describe it in a way that's totally clear what I mean. I'll keep trying until it comes out right, and please give me feedback.

So as an example I'm looking across the room at this hanging painted fish thing. When I look at it, I look at any detail, picking just one for now, and it's like I look inside that detail to find more, smaller ones. It doesn't matter if it's blur. Blur counts. Smaller pieces of blur inside that one is fine. Don't worry about staring or movement. Those things will take care of themselves. If nothing changes right away, that's fine too. Just keep at it for several minutes at least. After a while you can close your eyes and rest them if you want for a moment, then get right back at it.

The only place I can think of where anyone describes something like this is Bates's description in his book of how he had a flash of clear vision early on while working to reverse his presbyopia. Quoted:

Quote:One day, while looking at a picture of the Rock of Gibraltar which hung on the wall, I noted some black spots on its face. I imagined that these spots were the openings of caves, and that there were people in these caves moving about. When I did this my eyes were focussed for the reading distance. Then I looked at the same picture at the reading distance, still imagining that the spots were caves with people in them. The retinoscope showed that I had accommodated, and I was able to read the lettering beside the picture. I had, in fact, been temporarily cured by the use of my imagination. (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.iblindness.org/books/bates/ch20.html">http://www.iblindness.org/books/bates/ch20.html</a><!-- m -->)

He attributes it to his imagination, but as he describes it, he was doing what I described above, only with a slightly different mindset, in that he was imagining something within the detail rather than searching for it. Perhaps it's the same thing. I don't think he ever describes it again quite like that, which is a shame. Give it a good try over several sessions and see what you think, either Bates's way or my way. Remember, you're pretty much looking into one detail, not shifting between them, which may appear to fly in the face of what you think you know about the correct application of the Bates method, but do it anyway, and you will find that it will all make sense eventually.

The way the black period is described in most places, there's no emphasis on the size of it. It's got to be smaller, not a fixed size. And it seems like a period or anything like that is pretty boring and takes away any interest you may have had in seeing what's there, which has got to be much more interesting than a period. Whereas, whether you imagine people walking around inside the detail, or search inside it directly, you're engaging yourself in the process, which is going to really activate more of your visual system and bring that intensity to get everything working together.

Dave
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
#24
Is Imagination the base for eyesight improvement? I think it is. I imagined what you wrote about "this hanging painted fish thing" but instead I imagined a room & in the room on the other side, I see a hanging fish like the only one I remember - in a cartoon show when I was a kid AND guess what, I had clear vision right away.
#25
2xtreme2fit Wrote:Is Imagination the base for eyesight improvement? I think it is. I imagined what you wrote about "this hanging painted fish thing" but instead I imagined a room & in the room on the other side, I see a hanging fish like the only one I remember - in a cartoon show when I was a kid AND guess what, I had clear vision right away.

Right, and in the end it has nothing to do with the fish. If you think of the fish again, it probably won't have same effect. In either case it has to be in terms of being interested in finding details so as to trigger the eye-mind cohesion and set things right.
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
#26
This thread has really given me a lot to think about and practice with. On the one hand, I'm finding that as I look for details in an interested and curious way, my sight does usually get clearer. At first I was afraid I was staring, the evils of which I totally want to avoid, so kept backing away from looking at any point for too long, but I think I've cured myself of that now, just looking deeper and deeper like into Bates' imaginary caves. When I first read that passage of his (3 years ago?) I thought it was an interesting and helpful technique, but probably only for people with presbyopia -- I thought to cure my own myopic habits I needed to learn to see farther and farther out to the periphery. This is where I'm still a little bit stuck -- I need to keep practicing seeing the smaller and smaller point while still remaining aware of the periphery. If I start to get into that narrow focus blinders-on way of looking I had most of my life, I want to pull myself out of it as fast as possible, feeling trapped and panicky. I think it's just a wrong thought that if I see the center really clearly I'll lose the periphery, like the way those strong glasses made me see, and that continued practice will help me overcome this. Thanks again for this excellent thread.
#27
Nancy Wrote:This thread has really given me a lot to think about and practice with. On the one hand, I'm finding that as I look for details in an interested and curious way, my sight does usually get clearer. At first I was afraid I was staring, the evils of which I totally want to avoid, so kept backing away from looking at any point for too long, but I think I've cured myself of that now, just looking deeper and deeper like into Bates' imaginary caves. When I first read that passage of his (3 years ago?) I thought it was an interesting and helpful technique, but probably only for people with presbyopia -- I thought to cure my own myopic habits I needed to learn to see farther and farther out to the periphery. This is where I'm still a little bit stuck -- I need to keep practicing seeing the smaller and smaller point while still remaining aware of the periphery. If I start to get into that narrow focus blinders-on way of looking I had most of my life, I want to pull myself out of it as fast as possible, feeling trapped and panicky. I think it's just a wrong thought that if I see the center really clearly I'll lose the periphery, like the way those strong glasses made me see, and that continued practice will help me overcome this. Thanks again for this excellent thread.

You're probably right about that. People in learning about the Bates method know that their current way of seeing that isn't working out well as shown by the blur, and so they learn an aversion to anything that they for whatever reason associate with their poor vision, and then they try to do the opposite of things that they're doing now, even if it doesn't really make sense what the opposite might be. But it's not like anyone is seeing totally wrong. I mean, if it were 100% wrong, they'd be blind. It's more like making an adjustment in some specific things, while other things they're doing are already correct.

So for example, in looking intently at something, as if staring, it can feel like it's the wrong thing to do, because their experience has been that looking intently at something resulted in blur and all kinds of unpleasant sensations. But if you avoid doing this by constantly looking around at something else and never focusing on one thing long enough to study it, you're really not looking at anything, and you're telling your system that you don't want to see details.

As far as peripheral vision, you have to go back to common sense here. People with normal vision don't hurt their peripheral vision by looking for details.

Dave
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
#28
David,
Thanks. I'm still practicing, noticing my instinctual reactions and working to change them when they're not helping. I wrote about this on my blog last night and pointed to this thread which has been so helpful to me. I got an appreciative comment for your words I'd like to pass on to you. Thanks from me too -- you are helping a lot of people.

---- comment on my blog follows ----------------
Just finished the post. All I can say, is wow. I was sitting there, reading it, picturing everything he was saying. I was picturing a friend and a cousin of mine, two people I know who have normal vision, remembering how their eyes behave. Rather than dart from point-to-point, they seem still, calm. I continued reading and picturing, getting this clear flash every few blinks. By the end, it gave me all of the answers I’d been seeking. I knew there was a reason I was skeptical about some of the Bates method stuff. This post totally validated that skepticism and gave me that extra line of clarity of vision. And I like how he says it may seem too intense, because it does. And I also like how he says that what I thought of as “staring” actually was not. I also realized that I must have been a slow reader when learning to read (always looking for complete understanding and emotional resolutions in everything I attemp – in short, perfectionistic). That was likely what caused my nearsightedness to begin. A memory just came to me. I remember being in 4th grade, when I was trying to learn viola. I was at home practicing, and having trouble seeing the notes on the lines of the sheet music. I had glasses for distance by this point in time. I didn’t believe in wearing them…so much so that my teacher talked to my mother and talked to me and told me I should wear them. But I was so uncomfortable wearing them.The vision felt artificial and strained (this never went away; I just ignored it as best I could). So I was sitting there, at home practicing the viola, and as I looked at the notes on the music stand, they would switch places and move around so that it was hard to tell which line was where, and which note was on which line. My mother suggest I wear my glasses. I refused, and got very frustrated and upset. A few months later, I went to the eye doctor, and my prescription had doubled. I was taken by my mother to a second eye doctor for a second opinion. He found the same value. My vision had gone from -1.50 to -3.00 in a few months.

I think I know how to progress now. Thank you very much for posting this, and thank you to David for writing it.
-------------------- end of blog comment ----------
#29
hi, i find David's instructions to be helpful to remain active with my mind which allows my eye muscles to relax. However this active way of seeing calls for much attention. When going back to palming the mind is set in a mode to 'concentrate' and so there is some resistance to letting go / releasing.

This makes me wonder if I'm performing any of these correctly?
#30
How do you go about doing this on a regular basis? My problem is that as soon as I do something or think about something else I fall back into the old way of seeing and I don't really pay attention to what I'm looking at.

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