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Davids method plz help!!
#1
1)What is the davids method can you please explain to me. What do i have to do. How long do i have to do it for. How many times do i have to do it.
Can you also give me a link and give me in your words what it is so if i dont understand the link.

2)Also i printed the eye chart, what am i suppose to do with it?

3)What is the best eye vision improvement method?

4) Where is mr.bates book? can i find it online or do i have to buy it?
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#2
I was reading this post and pawel86ck´s reply about using weaker glasses and then I decided to write some considerations about NVI and this forum:

Bates and his techniques are fundamental for vision improvement, but it was written a handred years ago. I believe that if we open our minds to find new techniques, breaking paradigms, we can achieve a real receipt to cure eye problems.

I think we are on the right track to it, like David is doing with his posts, but besides that we need to join our knowledge and self-experience to find an easy and secure way to improve our vision based on nowadays, because it´s very very difficult for someone to throw away it´s glasses like Bates said when this person works with computers for instance (like me).

I´ve read many interesting posts in this forum with experiences like the 3 cups exercises, breathing, meditations, self-affirmations, eyes streching, and many others, but I don´t know why people doesn´t give much attention to it and stay focused and stuck only on the Bates thechniques. I know that Bates is the base for NVI but we need to evolve!

We need to take facts, list and compare what success people did, for how long they´ve practiced and what have changed in their lifes. Everyday I see posts on this forum by beginners that is completely lost about what to do, so we need to give to them something that they can read and follow, and not only ask them to read the Bates book (BTW is a very difficult reading) or answer that it varies completely from someone to someone. I know it´s not as easy as that, but i´m sure we are very very far from a situation where we could contribute to decrease eye problems in the world, and we can achieve that!

Adriano
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#3
Hi KingOfAFG, welcome!

It sounds like you haven't read anything about the Bates Method yet - am I correct? The best place to start for Bates Method background is here:

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Read all of Bates' "Perfect Sight Without Glasses" for comprehension of the Bates Method and its exercises (such as Palming, Swinging and using the Eye Chart). This is the foundation of Natural Vision Improvement (NVI) that is discussed by members using this Forum.

David's Method is an 'updated' explanation of how to practice good vision habits and make them a permanent part of your life. You can find his explanations on the Homepage of this website, in his Blog posts, and throughout the Forum.

For specific topics on NVI and general questions I suggest using the Search function of this Forum to go back and read old posts. That's what I did and it took awhile, but it caught me up to speed.

Good luck!
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#4
See my latest blog post, "How to look at stuff".

I'm trying to simplify and adjust the concepts from the Bates method and other sources to match what I actually observe with how vision works pragmatically. So it's a work in progress. So it's a matter of us breaking everything apart having to do with the Bates method, looking at each piece honestly, spreading it all out, adding in more facts that aren't part of the Bates method, putting it all together, and then at some point condensing it into a readable and somewhat complete guide. Maybe not. But that's the idea I'm working under.
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#5
You have been doing a greate job David. Congratulations.
I agree with you but I have a doubt about it.

I see that most of your posts is about changing our behavior and way of seeing, to show us the correct way of seeing. But what do you think about the exercises to strentgh and stretch the eyes muscles like we do to recover any other muscle of our body? Don´t you think those exercises are necessary to recover our vision?

Adriano
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#6
asarrascene Wrote:But what do you think about the exercises to strentgh and stretch the eyes muscles like we do to recover any other muscle of our body? Don´t you think those exercises are necessary to recover our vision?

You do realise that what you are saying isn't the Bates Method, right? The purpose of Bates Method is not to strengthen eye muscles but to learn how to relax. According to Bates our eyes are not weak from under-use (as muscles are when they aren't exercised), instead they are strained and tense from misuse.

I'm just making this correction so that beginners don't get the wrong idea about the Bates Method...
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#7
asarrascene Wrote:You have been doing a greate job David. Congratulations.
I agree with you but I have a doubt about it.

I see that most of your posts is about changing our behavior and way of seeing, to show us the correct way of seeing. But what do you think about the exercises to strentgh and stretch the eyes muscles like we do to recover any other muscle of our body? Don´t you think those exercises are necessary to recover our vision?

The question I would have is what would be the reason to think any particular eye muscles need strengthening and stretching?
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#8
A lot of authors says that because of the time we have spent using glasses, our eyes muscles got weaker and after we discard the glasses, we need to strengthen them with exercises and then relaxation.
Besides that, I see a lot of posts here about exercises like 3 cups, tibetan chart and others. So I´d like to know if it´s woth a wile doing those exercises or I should discard them and focus only on relaxation exercises.

I´ve read many posts about people saying that those exercises have halped them. In fact, I usually get fast but temporary benefts from it, while with palming I usually get permanent results. Anyway I haven´t discarded it yet.
This is my point of view, and i´d like to read yours about it.

Thanks,
Adriano
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#9
seetheleaves Wrote:
asarrascene Wrote:But what do you think about the exercises to strentgh and stretch the eyes muscles like we do to recover any other muscle of our body? Don´t you think those exercises are necessary to recover our vision?

You do realise that what you are saying isn't the Bates Method, right? The purpose of Bates Method is not to strengthen eye muscles but to learn how to relax. According to Bates our eyes are not weak from under-use (as muscles are when they aren't exercised), instead they are strained and tense from misuse.

I'm just making this correction so that beginners don't get the wrong idea about the Bates Method...

seetheleaves,
I realize it, but I´m questioning this just because I see a lot of people here discussing about those kind of exercises and I see a lot of authors explaining that too.

Honestly I think that most of the users of this forum have the same doubt about it.
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#10
seetheleaves Wrote:You do realise that what you are saying isn't the Bates Method, right? The purpose of Bates Method is not to strengthen eye muscles but to learn how to relax. According to Bates our eyes are not weak from under-use (as muscles are when they aren't exercised), instead they are strained and tense from misuse.
I'm just making this correction so that beginners don't get the wrong idea about the Bates Method...
For all we know, this might be equivalent to saying, 'You do realize that Calculus isn't Arithmetic', or, 'You do realize that Differential Equations isn't Calculus', or 'that Physics isn't Geometry'. What's the point?
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#11
@JMartinC4: Be nice... Smile

Seetheleaves makes a very good point. Any exercise that claims to strengthen the eye muscles cannot be considered part of the Bates method, whether they really work or not. The reason it's called the BATES method in the first place is because of the findings of one Dr. Bates.

You might consider eye muscle strengthening part of NVI, although that is a rather controversial topic if I'm not mistaken. Based on what I have read and observed, it seems that the direct act of exercising the eyes does not do anything to improve the vision. Yes, it is true; some people do in fact improve their vision as a result of these sorts of exercises - sometimes to 20/20 even. But there is a very good chance that such improvements are probably only indirectly related to these "exercises". I suspect that it is still the mind that is the control center for sight. So "exercising" the eyes might in some cases trigger some sort of mental response that helps improve the sight.

I know, for example, that my sight tends to improve temporarily if I pay attention to how I am seeing and am very deliberate about what I do. This may seem contradictory, but in fact, a good deal of my strain comes from overthinking and unnecessary anxiety. When I pay attention to how I breathe or when I pretend that a certain muscle in my body feels like jelly or even when I do an exercise without thinking about whether I'm doing it right or not, I find at least slight improvement in almost all cases. And in fact, I haven't done a single thing to address central fixation, movement, or blinking directly!

Sorry for the long-winded message, but what I'm trying to say is that vision improvement is probably something that is much vaster than most people think. There isn't one way to achieve our goals. There are an infinite number, and they all lead to different results for different people. Some paths lead to easier improvement than others; some paths lead to dead-ends. When it comes down to it, vision improvement is one big maze, and you don't always know where you're going, but if you persist, you will surely find your way out. (It's like the concept that says that if you keep your left hand against a certain wall and keep following it, you will eventually find your way out.)
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#12
Thanks for setting me straight, pikachu. Here is something I know: If I hadn't stumbled upon my need to equalize the eye dominance between my very submissive left eye and my overdominant right eye, and then figured out 'exercises' to strengthen that weak left eye so it participates as a near equal partner often taking the lead in eyesight (I may yet turn out to be left eye dominant the way this is going), I would never have made the very big improvements in my distance eyesight and control over it that I have achieved in the past few months. I don't recall Dr. Bates discussing much about 'eye dominance' - do you? But I think it could all be connected. Just as the sciences are all very much interconnected. Someone who wants to stay stuck in the rut of the original Bates Methods is probably never going to lead anybody out of their myopia. Bates Methods as science, yes; Bates Methods as gospel, no. Smile
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#13
Pikachu Wrote:@JMartinC4: Be nice... Smile

Seetheleaves makes a very good point. Any exercise that claims to strengthen the eye muscles cannot be considered part of the Bates method, whether they really work or not. The reason it's called the BATES method in the first place is because of the findings of one Dr. Bates.

Thanks Pikachu Smile - this is exactly what I meant. This is a post that was started by a beginner asking about 1) Bates Method and 2) David's method - neither of those methods refer to 'exercises for strengthening eye muscles' and I didn't want KingofAFG to be misguided about what the original Bates Method is/was. There is a lot of independent information on this Forum for all to read and consider and use it as they feel best, but alot of it falls under "NVI" not "Bates Method".
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#14
seetheleaves Wrote:
Pikachu Wrote:@JMartinC4: Be nice... Smile Seetheleaves makes a very good point. Any exercise that claims to strengthen the eye muscles cannot be considered part of the Bates method, whether they really work or not. The reason it's called the BATES method in the first place is because of the findings of one Dr. Bates.
Thanks Pikachu Smile - this is exactly what I meant. This is a post that was started by a beginner asking about 1) Bates Method and 2) David's method - neither of those methods refer to 'exercises for strengthening eye muscles' and I didn't want KingofAFG to be misguided about what the original Bates Method is/was. There is a lot of independent information on this Forum for all to read and consider and use it as they feel best, but alot of it falls under "NVI" not "Bates Method".
PEDANTIC! Exposed as someone who cares more about his/her own 'command' of some facet of the subject(s) (or the perception thereof) than of the subject matter itself! An abuse of presumed/perceived authority. And there we are: Stuck in a rut. Sad
My eyesight continues to improve. My control over it continues to improve. My Dad taught me how to get out of a rut. You have to rock the car back and forth, you have to turn the wheels back and forth. You have to experiment and not accept the situation as "that's the way the way it is." You don't give up. You 'worry' the dead branch until it comes off the tree.
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#15
@JMartinC4: I understand your point, but don’t understand what is wrong with what seetheleaves wrote. There is good to be said about your “don’t get stuck in a rut” approach, but would you recommend this sort of stuff to a beginner starting out? The way I see it, this IS a forum based on the Bates method and David’s ideas don’t seem to be new ideas so much as they are new ways of explaining the same thing (mostly; there are some rather interesting ideas here and there). I think that experimenting is a good thing, but sometimes you come off as too enthusiastic about trying out new things that it can be confusing to the beginner (I don’t know if I still count as a beginner, but you still confuse me sometimes!).

I’m not sure if you agree with me here, so I’d like your feedback on this point: I think that for any person who is new to the Bates method (or even to Natural Vision Improvement), it is VERY important that they start with the basics: palming, central fixation, shifting, swinging, sunning, etc. This stuff is the bread-and-butter that builds the foundation necessary for all of the more complex applications out there. Will the “standard” Bates method exercises work in all cases? Probably not. But they seem to benefit most people to a greater or lesser degree and at the very least, the Bates method teaches the NVI student the importance of relieving and avoiding strain, breaking bad vision habits, and establish good ones in their place. To sum it up, my point is that “you need to learn to walk before you can learn to run”.
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