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How to look at stuff
#16
I like when you say "It takes a lot of abuse for vision to start to slip. " cause this is what i exactly did when I was sitting at the computer for extensive amounts of time and not letting my eyes to rest at all.

Recently, after being without glasses for almost two months and a half (Wow I just realized that) I noticed that I started to feel the presence of my eyes.
What I mean is that I feel my eye balls, their existence and most importantly that my eyes are in constant strain.
Before I could not feel it, not I am aware of the strain. It feels like you would go to gym and your muscles are sore.
The problem is that my eyes are sore all the time and I cannot get rid of the strain.

I guess I am still approaching the bates incorrectly and spend to much time on exercising my eyes rather then relaxing them.

Another great post that clears the interpretation of the Bates method.
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#17
blwegrzyn Wrote:I guess I am still approaching the bates incorrectly and spend to much time on exercising my eyes rather then relaxing them.

That's one part where my perspective differs from classic Bates - I see it as not a matter of exercising the eyes or relaxing them, but using them correctly. The eyes feel bad and work badly due to abuse. So it's a process of directly teaching yourself consciously the best way to see, and your brain/eyes will learn it in their own way by being involved.

When we have chronic tension in muscles, doing something to relax the muscles only does much good if we also change our way of using them to a way that isn't abusing them. Abuse is putting tasks to them that they aren't designed to do, or aren't strong enough to do, or aren't designed to do without proper assistance. Muscles become chronically tense not from being used, but from being abused. If we keep abusing them, repeated relaxation methods are not very helpful long-term, whereas using them correctly eliminates the need for any relaxation treatments.
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#18
This answer screws my thinking completely.
So it is not exercising, not relaxation , but the way we use our eyes!!!
I can see that getting my vision back is going to be extremely hard.
While I type this I look at letters and I am lost.
Not sure what to change in the way I see?
I always though that relaxation was the primary step and once the eyes are relaxed i would see again.
I am starting to think that it cannot be one thing but it is a combination of all three.
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#19
blwegrzyn Wrote:This answer screws my thinking completely.
So it is not exercising, not relaxation , but the way we use our eyes!!!
I can see that getting my vision back is going to be extremely hard.
While I type this I look at letters and I am lost.
Not sure what to change in the way I see?
I always though that relaxation was the primary step and once the eyes are relaxed i would see again.
I am starting to think that it cannot be one thing but it is a combination of all three.

It's pretty much what I've been saying over the last year. But if there's something in the last blog post that's unclear or seems wrong, let me know.
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#20
No the post is excellent.
I guess it is just my view of Bates and how to apply its methods is not well understood.
I just don't want to get into some practices that would get me to no progress.
With every of your post I learn more.
I hope some day you will write that great book or guide for a dummy like me!!!
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#21
David's wisdom:
Quote:...not a matter of exercising the eyes or relaxing them, but using them correctly. The eyes feel bad and work badly due to abuse.

I believe this is true of the entire body. As I just got heat back on in the house after it being out for 2 days, I was able to shed layers of clothing and stretch open and relax my shoulders, let my spine lengthen upward, etc. Of course I can see more clearly if I'm comfortable and my neck is naturally elongated, not hunched into itself like a turtle trying to keep me warm! The neck and the rest of the spine are meant to be easily upright, the head balanced on the neck without any strain, and few people stand or sit like this, and often their vision pays the price as well as their back.
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#22
Thanks David.
But overall i want to know.Bates said that people with good eyes see efforlessly there should be no effort involved.
I am still learning that is we should try to see with the minds eye such that we should use our attention as you stated in your blog rather than our focus.
For example rather than use my eyes to focus on it i use my attention.
We use our minds rather than our eyes.
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#23
Zulfadhli Wrote:Thanks David.
But overall i want to know.Bates said that people with good eyes see efforlessly there should be no effort involved.
I am still learning that is we should try to see with the minds eye such that we should use our attention as you stated in your blog rather than our focus.
For example rather than use my eyes to focus on it i use my attention.
We use our minds rather than our eyes.

Bates tried to describe everything wrong with a person's blurry seeing process as a result of "effort" or "strain". That can describe some of the problem, if we had to simplify it to one word, but we don't have to, and there are dysfunctional aspects that those words don't do a good job of describing.
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#24
I like the way you teach not to get into trying to make the eyes move outline, shift in a certain pattern (nosefeather?) because it is not the normal way people see. Bates teachers use these as tools to get the eyes moving, break up the staring habit and it does improve the vision but I do notice the vision becomes much clearer after practice of shifting, central fixation when the eyes are working complete natural without any conscious control of their movement; like you mentioned,; the eyes movement just going along with the attention of the mind. God I love this website! I have learnt more things here that Natural Vision Improvement teachers have not taught me and it works!
I refer many people to this website for straight to the point, true Bates Method Training.
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#25
Got a question; The eyes move with the mind, mental attention when loking at objects, scenery; but, what about when a object moves into the visual field; example; a dog runs into the peripheral field from the left side, the peripheral vision senses the movement and then the eyes (central field) move onto the object; which moved first; the eyes/central field then the mind, mental atention folows the eyes or; the mind, then eyes/central field or both mind, eyes at the exact same time?
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#26
clarknight Wrote:Got a question; The eyes move with the mind, mental attention when loking at objects, scenery; but, what about when a object moves into the visual field; example; a dog runs into the peripheral field from the left side, the peripheral vision senses the movement and then the eyes (central field) move onto the object; which moved first; the eyes/central field then the mind, mental atention folows the eyes or; the mind, then eyes/central field or both mind, eyes at the exact same time?

I think at the same time. Definitely not the eyes first.

This is partly a process of learning to be interested in paying attention to small things, and finding small things. It doesn't do any good to push the eyes around trying to force some kind of attention or interest. It has to be real, because it isn't about getting the eyes to move, it's about getting the eyes to synchronize with attention, and getting attention to be active in the right way.
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#27
Thinking this; Peripheral field of the eyes detect the dog moving in the left peripheral field.
The eyes are an extention of the brain; the brain and eyes detect the movement of the dog; the light rays from the dog travel into the eyes, onto the eyes retina and in a split second the visual energy signal is sent to the brain; the brain then directs the eye muscles to move the eyes, eyes central field onto the dog. Yes?
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#28
David Wrote:
clarknight Wrote:Got a question; The eyes move with the mind, mental attention when loking at objects, scenery; but, what about when a object moves into the visual field; example; a dog runs into the peripheral field from the left side, the peripheral vision senses the movement and then the eyes (central field) move onto the object; which moved first; the eyes/central field then the mind, mental atention folows the eyes or; the mind, then eyes/central field or both mind, eyes at the exact same time?

I think at the same time. Definitely not the eyes first.

This is partly a process of learning to be interested in paying attention to small things, and finding small things. It doesn't do any good to push the eyes around trying to force some kind of attention or interest. It has to be real, because it isn't about getting the eyes to move, it's about getting the eyes to synchronize with attention, and getting attention to be active in the right way.
Yes!
Thanks again!
If i try to focus with my eyes my eyes hurt.But if i try to pay attention and try to naturally look at something my eyes get better!
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#29
clarknight Wrote:Thinking this; Peripheral field of the eyes detect the dog moving in the left peripheral field.
The eyes are an extention of the brain; the brain and eyes detect the movement of the dog; the light rays from the dog travel into the eyes, onto the eyes retina and in a split second the visual energy signal is sent to the brain; the brain then directs the eye muscles to move the eyes, eyes central field onto the dog. Yes?

I wouldn't say it's automatic. Some people don't care to look at the dog.
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#30
Peter Grunwald (Eyebody) said intention (or attention, or interest) leads, then the eyes and body follow. So if the dog catches your attention and you're interested in looking, you then turn your gaze on it and maybe turn your body to face it more fully. Makes sense to me.
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