I need help from this forum, if that's okay with you guys. I have read the Bates book and the Visions Of Joy one, although not completely, I have a good grasp of how it works. Dynamic relaxation = perfect eyesight.
So yeah, I have 6.00D to 7.50D Nearsightedness. With Astigmatism. I can't tell exactly what my eyesight grade is because the last time I checked with a machine it produced 6.50D/7.50D but because my glasses with higher prescription broke, I am now using my old 5.00D-5.50D and although not picture perfect, I can see okay with it.
I spend a lot of my time on the computer because I do internet marketing and because I'm not that good at being productive, I spend way much more time on the pc.
Can I be cured? I know it's about mentality so it all depends on me. But I want to know a few things. Thanks!
1. Proof of highest eye grade that has been cured with this method. How?
2. Most effective relaxation and visual technique? I know palming and sungazing was cited as the most important techniques in the book.
3. Is there a good measure on how much I can improve in a month doing Relaxation techniques for 15 minutes?
4. What techniques do I use? What techniques did you use that you think contributed best in your improvement?
Here's what I do mainly, but I'm not consistent since I find it hard to form habits.
What I do is palm, have my back against the wall and rest my elbows near the knees and my hands on my eyes(palming). I visualize me doing a handstand and focus mainly on the feet and watch it as it melts and become like a jelly substance, from the feet to my hands. I watch as I melt from my feet down to my hands. This is very effective for me fortunately.
It looks like you want some examples or 'proof' that moderate to severe myopia can be cured so I urge you to read 'Stories from the Clinic' by Emily Lierman, Dr. Bate's assistant. I've just downloaded it too and I'm planning on reading it on my tablet.
My sight is currently at around -5.5d and I spend a lot of time on the internet as a blogger. I want to cure my eyes so bad that I'm willing to do anything, including stowing away my laptop and throwing away my glasses lol!
At a more personal level, I had a friend in high school who was from India and she had a prescription of -3.5d in both eyes. During vacation she went to India where she enrolled in an eyesight training institution, where they taught her lots of cool stuff like print pushing, central fixation, yoga for the eyes and candle gazing. It was amazing, she came back without the dreaded glasses and she was completely cured, though she told me she still had to practice everyday.
Unfortunately I can't go to that institution in India (I don't even know the name) so I have to use as many resources as I can find online. We have to try out different techniques and stick to ones that work for us. It's cool that visualizing a headstand and watching it melt works for you. I'm going to try that too.
Nancy of dreamersight.wordpress.com is an example of what can be done. She started at -10 and now averages 20/45 on an average day, which is almost enough to be given a drivers license without the corrective lens restriction in the US.
For myself, the diopters are roughly the same as when I started, I have the same problem you do of not being consistent. Hopefully that will change soon.
Everything you understand so far sounds great, I'd also recommend reading David's blog on how to see. These relaxation exercises are great, but with the exception of rare cases, usually proper visual habits need to be retaught to an individual seeking improvement.
As an example, I have a little over 4 diopters of myopia and roughly 20/200 vision. I can usually recognize faces anywhere from 4-10 feet away from me, and I can count fingers at 1 meter. That's after I'd already been retraining my eyes for almost a year.
I was recently on a camping trip and someone who apparently had 20/70 vision (very weak myopia) could not distinguish fingers at 2 feet before he put his contacts in.Â
That's not a matter of diopters, that's a matter of recognizing what you see. As it is, when I've practiced sufficiently to finally read 20/70 on the Snellen and it's not a clear flash, my whole world will be opened up hugely. So, there's that to learn as well. Also, part of why how long it takes depends on you, is that there are widely varying times to affect a cure.
For an old guy Dr. Bates talks about (and might be in his assistant's book Stories from the Clinic) who had -10 diopters, it took less than a week to be cured. For Ms. Nancy, it has already been a tad more than 10 years to get where she is. Each individual is different, and therefore because they are unique, they will each have a unique experience. I think personally because of my lack of consistency, I'll take a while to get there.
So keep at it and you'll get there eventually. Probably the first really great thing you'll see is a clear flash. That'll tell you you're getting somewhere. I probably get them at least once a day, sometimes even more. But you need to be consistent if you want that to be your average vision instead of a clear flash.
Fiat, thanks for mentioning me. I was probably more contracted and tense and anxious than most people, most of my life, and this pattern was so strong in me it took a while to loosen. And it is still unwinding. Plus I did a lot wrong when I started, thinking all I had to do was wear reduced glasses and my vision would magically improve without changing my habits of looking. Sorrisi came down from -8 to 20/40 in just a couple of years, and Peter Grunwald (Eyebody Method) took one and a half years from -10 to clear sight, with the foundation of the Alexander Method. I use other people as examples and role models, but everyone is different, and this is not a race. For me now my big focus is remembering that I chose to be here now, and I choose to see as clearly as I can, so I have to continue to do practices all the time that help with that.
Not a matter of diopters, but by recognizing what you see?
Sounds spot on, since I think my highest is (myopia)7.50D but I can still recognize things a few meters away I guess. Although it's blurry, I know what it is.
Anyways, I came across this Hypnosis downloads thing. I think it will help us with curing our eyesight: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hypnosisdownloads.com/relaxation-techniques/improve-visualization">http://www.hypnosisdownloads.com/relaxa ... ualization</a><!-- m --> . Since in palming, visualization is the primary method of relaxation, right?
Also this: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hypnosisdownloads.com/enjoy-life/supercharged-sight">http://www.hypnosisdownloads.com/enjoy- ... rged-sight</a><!-- m -->
BETTER EYESIGHT
A MONTHLY MAGAZINE DEVOTED TO THE PREVENTION AND CURE OF IMPERFECT SIGHT WITHOUT GLASSES
APRIL, 1926
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
The writer had 24 years' personal experience in wearing glasses, most of the time with bifocals. After this 24 years' knowledge of the advantages and disadvantages of glasses, they were laid aside on August 15, 1924, and have not been worn since.
Owing to attained age and 24 years of Eye and Mind strains being physically recorded, Eye-Mind improvement was slow but marvelous and my visual difficulties are now confined to poor print, poor type and poor light. I have attained wonderful improvement in this one and a half years of Eye-Mind practice. On many occasions truly miraculous conditions prevailed. They were periods of reflective, very free thinking, when thought flowed, was created as fast as pen could write. There was ease, relaxation of eye and mind. A noted experience of this occurred on the morning of November 3, 1925, after I had read some article upon school work. I was seeing thoughts with my mind's eye. Near and distant vision was wonderfully free and clear. These experiences and phenomena have occurred many times during the past six months. The thrill of ecstasy, and feeling of freedom during these periods, arising from a complete emancipation from the thraldom of wearing glasses and their effects, are indescribable. They indicate an intimacy of relationship between the mind and matter never fathomed, and they also indicate that man is still a free agent to search out truth and happiness, and if he wills to use and uses his intelligence and available scientific data, he may carve out a new birth of freedom and progress for the human race. Man creates his own destiny.
Eye Education as an ally of mind development, of eye and physical health conditions and of human efficiency and happiness, should be practiced in every American school. Excepting radio, it is the miraculous wonder of the great age in which we live.
Hey guys, just a new question.
I saw a Bates quote somewhere along the lines of, "if you have perfect central fixation, you have perfect eyesight. IF you have perfect shifting, you have perfect eyesight. Etc etc."
Does that mean I have to practice all forms of relaxation techniques to get my eyesight back, or just master one or two of them?
ReventioDaFirenze Wrote:Does that mean I have to practice all forms of relaxation techniques to get my eyesight back, or just master one or two of them?
You need only learn how to master one, to restore your vision. But learning multiple techniques can be convenient for practicing at different times, and in different places. (for instance, it's wouldn't be very convenient to palm, while driving, or get up in the middle of a class or meeting, and start doing a long swing)
ReventioDaFirenze Wrote:Does that mean I have to practice all forms of relaxation techniques to get my eyesight back, or just master one or two of them?
You need only learn how to master one, to restore your vision. But learning multiple techniques can be convenient for practicing at different times, and in different places. (for instance, it's wouldn't be very convenient to palm, while driving, or get up in the middle of a class or meeting, and start doing a long swing)
That makes perfect sense, thank you.
Have you had your eyesight improved with the Bates method? How long have you been practicing?
Also, what techniques in your opinion relaxes you best?
yes, i've restored my vision back to normal levels. I started getting interested in it around 2005. But I fumbled around for a number of years, before I came to understand the method better. Some of the things that I found brought me the most relief were reading fine print, realizing the halos, realizing that just closing my eyes could lessen tension, remembering to keep my eyes shifting at all times, realizing the universal and optical swings. What brings relief to one does not necessarily work for another, so you have to find what works best for you, and even test variations of the basic ones, and combinations. For example, palming for several short sessions every day may work better for you than a couple long sessions, or vice versa. You don't know until you try. Find your optimum distances, and letters, and objects, and memories that are optimums for you as opposed to pessimums. Remember that you are a unique individual, and that there is something that everyone can find to facilitate relief from strain and tension, temporarily, then more permanently with practice. Diopters only tell part of the story, there is so much more to visual acuity, that it's best not to get very hung up on the numbers, and focus on finding what brings you the best relief from strains and tension that cannot be measured with any device.
arocarty Wrote:yes, i've restored my vision back to normal levels. I started getting interested in it around 2005. But I fumbled around for a number of years, before I came to understand the method better. Some of the things that I found brought me the most relief were reading fine print, realizing the halos, realizing that just closing my eyes could lessen tension, remembering to keep my eyes shifting at all times, realizing the universal and optical swings. What brings relief to one does not necessarily work for another, so you have to find what works best for you, and even test variations of the basic ones, and combinations. For example, palming for several short sessions every day may work better for you than a couple long sessions, or vice versa. You don't know until you try. Find your optimum distances, and letters, and objects, and memories that are optimums for you as opposed to pessimums. Remember that you are a unique individual, and that there is something that everyone can find to facilitate relief from strain and tension, temporarily, then more permanently with practice. Diopters only tell part of the story, there is so much more to visual acuity, that it's best not to get very hung up on the numbers, and focus on finding what brings you the best relief from strains and tension that cannot be measured with any device.
Thanks for the response, it's very well appreciated.
I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.
1.What was your eye grade pre-Bates method? Myopic or Hyperopic?
2.How does one shift all the time? Like you look at one letter and look at another letter? Or while walking, you look at something on the left and then on something on the right?
3.How does one do swings? I never really understood the swinging technique while reading the Bates materials. Is it done with the whole body, or just your eyes?
4. I have a printed version of the Snellen Test Chart just above my pc monitor, and a continuous chart(from the one above the monitor) stuck on the monitor itself so I can just flip it over and have a complete snellen chart.
5. If I understand correctly, flashing is like blinking repeatedly at a letter on the chart until it becomes clear, is that correct? And I'm thinking that the little bit clearness that I get while flashing is just the pinhole effect? Or is that not the real "clear sight" yet? Also, while doing flashing, sooner or later my eyes get tired. Is this how it's supposed to go? I close my eyes a for a while, I feel a loosening at my eyes. Is this relaxation? I have only just recently felt this way now.
6. I still use my glasses when I do computer work since I read anything when I don't use it. But I can almost always do without them if I don't have to do anything that needs visual clarity. Before eyesight restoration, did you still use your glasses in certain occasions? Or just when rambo?
7. Since I play football(soccer), I did a test. I watched a compilation video with a good song that I got from youtube without glasses. I put it on continuous replay and watched it a few times, looking at all surroundings in the vid. After doing so in a lot of minutes(like 30 or so), I've started to see clear lines from the monitor's square lcd. The lines I saw was like overlapping with the blurred ones. Then after a while i got tired of watching and went to our third floor(rooftop) and just looked at the horizon with a school building far away. I can't exactly tell the distance, but it's a 20-30 minute drive by car. So I looked at it and blinked a bit and saw clear lines, just like the LCD phenomenon. I can distinguish the windows from the school building, but of course the surrounding area was blurred a little. Right now with a few blinks the clear lines on the monitor starts appearing, although not as clear when I did it yesterday.
I assume this is a reaction of the visual center? Have you had any experience like this?
8. Also, reading fine print? Did you have a technique used while reading? Or just really reading it without glasses on?
This is a lot, I hope you can find time answering this and I hope everyone reading this chips in on their experience. Thanks!
ReventioDaFirenze Wrote:Thanks for the response, it's very well appreciated.
I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.
1.What was your eye grade pre-Bates method? Myopic or Hyperopic?
I was around 20/175, give or take a little, depending on day and conditions. Myopic, astigmatic; I wore corrective lenses for about 24 years.
ReventioDaFirenze Wrote:2.How does one shift all the time? Like you look at one letter and look at another letter? Or while walking, you look at something on the left and then on something on the right?
The question you should ask yourself is how does one NOT shift all the time, and WHY aren't you shifting all the time. Constant movement is a physiological necessity of the visual system, and without it vision is quickly impaired. People with normal vision are always moving their eyes. It may or may not be conspicuous, but they are never attempting to hold their points of fixation/attention. That is a main symptom of the person with refractive error, they try to hold points of attention too long for whatever reason. The eye will only do what the brain tells it - it has no innate intelligence. So you have to get your mind to start telling it something different. Something different, yet very simple - MOVE! Shift! Learn to let them drift on areas of interest. Not hard, not fast. Think easy, flowing, soft, sometimes rhythmic motion. You shouldn't have to hunt points down, grasp at them or make any attempt to latch onto them, they're just part of an overall picture that is being built in your mind, then you're off to the next one, then next one, etc.
Yes, look at a letter, then another letter, or look at a part of a letter, then to another part of a letter. Look to the left when walking, look up, down, to the right, or ANY way except the way that makes you try to stay on the same point. You just can't keep your mind fixed on the same point, ever. It's a strain to try to do so.
ReventioDaFirenze Wrote:3.How does one do swings? I never really understood the swinging technique while reading the Bates materials. Is it done with the whole body, or just your eyes?
There are many different kinds of swings. Their aim is all the same - to secure relief from nervous tension. The long swing involves the whole body, and helps relax nerves everywhere. Shorter swings involves just swinging the head, all the way, to a sway, which is just a very short motion of less than an inch. And yes, swinging can just involve noticing oppositional movement while shifting the eyes alone. People with normal or close to normal vision can notice a short swing of objects or letters without attempting any movement of the eyes or body - the result of unconscious movement in the eyes themselves. It's very short, but is an essential part of perfect sight, whether one is aware of it or not.
Bates and other bates teachers describe in great detail how these are done.
ReventioDaFirenze Wrote:5. If I understand correctly, flashing is like blinking repeatedly at a letter on the chart until it becomes clear, is that correct? And I'm thinking that the little bit clearness that I get while flashing is just the pinhole effect? Or is that not the real "clear sight" yet? Also, while doing flashing, sooner or later my eyes get tired. Is this how it's supposed to go? I close my eyes a for a while, I feel a loosening at my eyes. Is this relaxation? I have only just recently felt this way now.
No, that's really just blinking. Flashing can be done by looking at a letter or something at the distance at which it is seen best, then closing the eyes for a shorter or longer duration, remembering the letter, then opening them for a second or so and noticing if it is seen better. You close them before you begin to strain again, which may only be a matter of seconds. Keep them closed again until you feel them rested, then repeat. Flashing can be done with two charts, with the eyes open. Look at one at a letter on one at the nearpoint where it's seen best, then look quickly to the same letter on a more distant chart, remembering how it looked at the nearpoint. Look back quickly to the near chart before you begin to strain again. Flashing basically means you look at something quickly at an unfavorable distance, after you have 'preped' yourself by seeing and remembering something at a favorable distance where you see it best, and are most relaxed.
ReventioDaFirenze Wrote:6. I still use my glasses when I do computer work since I read anything when I don't use it. But I can almost always do without them if I don't have to do anything that needs visual clarity. Before eyesight restoration, did you still use your glasses in certain occasions? Or just when rambo?
Yes, for driving, and golfing. Most other things I just dealt with the strain and blur. Once I passed the DMV test and got rid of the restriction, I never put them on again.
ReventioDaFirenze Wrote:So I looked at it and blinked a bit and saw clear lines, just like the LCD phenomenon. I can distinguish the windows from the school building, but of course the surrounding area was blurred a little. Right now with a few blinks the clear lines on the monitor starts appearing, although not as clear when I did it yesterday.
I assume this is a reaction of the visual center? Have you had any experience like this?
Certainly. I remember noticing the telephone lines, and other lines which would have been previously indistinguishable. That's all part of the process, and as the relief from strain and tension is momentary or longer, so will the things you see come and go.
ReventioDaFirenze Wrote:8. Also, reading fine print? Did you have a technique used while reading? Or just really reading it without glasses on?
You don't have to read volumes of fine print to get benefit. If you can see/remember one small letter perfectly, you will get benefit. At first I was attempting to read for content too much, rather than just seeing it. It's impossible to see anything that tiny without relaxing, so even if that's a single letter, that's good! I also practiced just shifting from one point to another, forgetting at first about content, and let myself just notice detail of shapes and points. Eventually I started noticing halos, the white through the lines and inside the letters, which appears whiter than the surrounds. (an illusion). I also noticed the optical swings, which is seeing the slight unconscious movement of the letters. Always without glasses on, first at the point at which it was most comfortable.
I assume that a full understanding of the methods are the most important thing you can learn throughout the method? Because if you don't do it right you aren't really getting benefits except that you go through trial and error. When you have achieved full understanding of the technique, how long did it take before you got your eyesight back?
Another question, so, flashing is about remembering perfectly the letters that you see when you open your eyes for a little bit? That means that it's more time remembering the letter and less time looking at the chart? And that you should always see the letters clearly, meaning that you have one near you for remembering it clearly when your eyes are closed? So if I do it, then this is how it goes: I have a chart in my hand near my face(so that I see it clearly), and open my eyes for a little bit(about as long as a blink) then close it. While closed, what I do is remember the letter clearly and then notice if my eyes get relaxed, then repeat the process?
Also, the fine print one. How or why the eyes must be relaxed just to see fine print? Can you elaborate so I understand it better?
ReventioDaFirenze Wrote:I assume that a full understanding of the methods are the most important thing you can learn throughout the method? Because if you don't do it right you aren't really getting benefits except that you go through trial and error. When you have achieved full understanding of the technique, how long did it take before you got your eyesight back?
Yes, learning to do the technique(s) correctly is important. But nobody does anything perfectly at first, and has to go through a lot of attempts, trial and error to find their way, especially those on their own without anyone to guide them. Even a little understanding is better than none, and gets you moving in the right direction. And even when you get an 'ah ha' moment, it rarely sticks, so you have to keep putting yourself in the right conditions in order to keep doing it correctly for it to stick. My body is extremely stubborn. When it learns something, whether correctly or incorrectly, it gets very deeply set as an unconscious movement. It took many months before I was able to make anything really stick. And under some conditions, longer. I must have a very strong lower brain, which controls involuntary movements. It doesn't want to give the wrong ones up without a passionate fight. That's what 24 years of wearing corrective lenses can do. Glasses teach/feed the visual system and lower brain the wrong information. If you want to stop feeding your brain the wrong information, you have to stop seeing through them.
ReventioDaFirenze Wrote:Another question, so, flashing is about remembering perfectly the letters that you see when you open your eyes for a little bit? That means that it's more time remembering the letter and less time looking at the chart? And that you should always see the letters clearly, meaning that you have one near you for remembering it clearly when your eyes are closed? So if I do it, then this is how it goes: I have a chart in my hand near my face(so that I see it clearly), and open my eyes for a little bit(about as long as a blink) then close it. While closed, what I do is remember the letter clearly and then notice if my eyes get relaxed, then repeat the process?
Yes, seeing and remember as perfectly as you can (again, nobody does so perfectly at first), at a favorable distance, then looking for an instant at letters or other objects at an unfavorable distance. Yes, much more time looking at, and remembering the letter and only a few seconds attempting to see it at the more distant range. Yes, see it as clearly as you can, so you give your memory a chance to process it clearly, as well. If you don't see something clearly, you're not going to remember it any better. And if you don't remember it well, you're certainly not going to see it at a more unfavorable distance well, either. You don't want to just look at it for the length of a blink - you need more time to process it, it's detail, it's sides, shape, contours. Allow enough time for your brain to soak it in it's details, it's blackness, while it's at the favorable distance. Close your eyes and remember it the same; repeat this process a few times, then look at it in the more distant range. If you go too distant too fast, will likely just strain, so do it incrementally.
ReventioDaFirenze Wrote:Also, the fine print one. How or why the eyes must be relaxed just to see fine print? Can you elaborate so I understand it better?
You can see and read large printed characters despite the fact that you maintain a refractive error. Doing so doesn't encourage or entice your visual system to change, or focus for the better. So you could go on that way indefinitely, never getting better, maybe for the worse. To see the same characters in very small print necessitates a change in focus - which is not possible unless you let go of tension and strain. That's simply it. Bates railed against the use of large print in schools, because he witnessed what it could do to the eyes of students, and how it could ingrain the wrong habits of focus.
