I accidentally came across the Bates book 6 weeks ago, and it struck me that it is possible to cure your eyes. I thought with very little hope that something could be done about it, but I never could imagine that was so real. I read his book once - now I will be going for the second time, but I still do not get it - how to work with it, please if anyone could clarify this for me (without sending me links to post with sth similar as I believe to read them all or most of them on your forum).
I have myopia (with astigmatism) -3,25 (-1,5) -3,75 (-1,75). The two things that really confuse the %#@$@# out of me is palming and shifting as I do need someone to elaborate on them.
1. Palming - I tried 5m, 10m, 30m, and one hour but afterwards I do not see distance sharply/clearly, there was once sth that last like a nanosecond but I do not believe this is the "flash" as it not clear enough.
-It is very hard by the way to keep your hands in this position for more than 30 minutes as blood just stop to circulate in full circuit, they just get numb.
-I must admit it is generally very hard for me to relax, since the time I read W.B. book I realised how extremely hard it is for me to think positively in general or to relax. It helps to concentrate on breathing, otherwise negative thoughts just come around
-In W.B book there is this example of a gentleman who performed palming for more than 12 hours, and it really did help him. If I will gather the strength I hope I will try, I am trying to push it there, but only to discover how weak I am - after 1,5 h when you turn on the light you don't see to much for 5-15 seconds, I was doing it with tape round my head (I cannot do it with hands longer than 30,40 minutes). The thing I observed was that there was sth strange I saw a medium size "dark/yellow commet" in the center of vision doing circles for 30 seconds after one hour of seeing darkness (it is not completely palming with tape instead of your own palms).
Finally the question: How to perform this, for how long, what to think about during the exercise and what to concentrate on?
2. Shifting/Swinging
This is the part when I am really losing it.
-I cannot find my "weak spot" even on gigantic C, I cannot find it on page of text either. If I go too far away from book (>=20 cm between my face and page is far away for me) everything starts to get blurry, if I take the completely black page, the side I am not concentrating on is darker, like 3-5 inches from it. [I also noticed sth very bizzare during the night, when I look at not so bright light (like reflex on the wall, or my watch green numbers that illuminate) it just goes dark, when I look slightly away from it I can see that the light comes back there.]
-I cannot understand what does it mean to "shift", "swing" and you have no idea how desperate I am on this matter, the more I read about this it starts to get more and more confusing. I cannot see the world shift, if I stand 5 foot from the wall and I look at point A and point B "shifting" between them, I do not have the sense that they are moving, I just move my eyes from point A to B. What should I do to make it shift?
-What the hell does it mean to "shift" do I just take my eyes from point a to point b, do I first think about point b then go with eyes to point b? And please someone enlighten me what the $#@$@ does it mean to shift your attention and what is the $#@$@# difference between that and those two things I mentioned above, please.
[I put a chair approx. 3 feet from Snellen chart (yes, I know I am a looser) and basically I can see 2,5 rows from that distance. I was performing what I call shifting - if I can see the row, I go down, and somehow on 3-rd weekend (I do this shifting on weekends both sat and sun as the sun gets really into the room) after 30 minutes of shifting between the window and snellen card I could see the bottom line, but the problem is I saw two bottom lines, actually three last rows I saw them really double, one very sharp, one blurry. Is this ok, or did I just did sth wrong, it was not like seeing on of the letters better, it was seeing the whole line quite sharp for few moments. Since then I could not get it back - I mean I did not go to the last row again from this time on]
Does anyone know emails to following people or how to contact them (as newcomer I cannot simply send them the message) because the seem to know what they're doing:
Sean_Augensicht
Nancy from dreamersight@wordpress/about/
Sassi from sassisailor@wordpress [not updating to much]
If anybody could clarify this for me it could change sth, really, I am working hard on this, I just need good instructions LOTS of relaxation and I should push it in the right direction.
Quote:I must admit it is generally very hard for me to relax.
I sympathize, because this used to be me. Take it slowly, don't see it as a race or desperate struggle to improve, because that is just strain. Read David's posts, then read them again. Concentrate on breathing -- you said this relaxes you. You are making this harder than it has to be. Shifting is simply moving your gaze, consciously like looking from the left side of the room to the right, or unconsciously in the saccadic movement of the universal swing, the natural pulsing of the letters on the eye chart which comes with relaxed vision.
If palming for a long time is frustrating or tension-making, do it for 30 seconds or 2 minutes. Prop up your elbows on a pillow to support your arms if they're getting tired. Get creative -- there are some fundamental principles like relaxation and movement but there is no regimem of doing exercises precisely like someone else for the exact same duration. This is your vision improvement journey, so you have to take ownership of it, using all of us as guides and consultants.
I'll answer your comment on my blog which is this same question, shortly, basically saying what I did above.
Thank you Nancy, I guess you are right, I just discovered that Bates wrote to keep your eyes closed during palming... I guess I wanted to go in the very wrong direction and put to much effort there. The more I start to think about it, the more I see (in general meaning of the word) that to cure yourself you have to change pretty much everything. Not only how you see, but how you think and perceive the world.
Cezar, take it slowly and don't get discouraged. You are changing long-held habits. Yes, I tell my students that vision improvement is about a lot more than how clear the eye chart is! Notice small improvements, like that your eyes are more relaxed and moist, or that you get fewer headaches (because you're straining less). By the way, I'd rather you post your questions here than on my blog so everyone can see them, and the answers, whether they come from me or not. You are in for an exciting adventure, believe me.
you have no idea how hard it is to remain calm For all my life I've been told there is no rainbow, and then one guy wrote a book that I came across by pure accident and this guy says of course there is a rainbow and it is pretty much for everybody for free, right now. Apart from that Bates writes about it like it is the most obvious thing in the entire universe. In my opinion its like saying whether planets go around the sun or the other way around.
No more questions on your blog - done.
Therefore the question goes here as I became confused. Is this how goes the algorithm or exercises?
1. Relaxation <this is funny, because achievieng this is like quite an effort right now >
2. Palming <eyes closed, it took some time for me to get this...>
3. Shifting, Swinging <QUESTION - how to do it correctly
The shifting issue. My main problem is the result we should achieve. W.B. âsaid It was important to regard one letter on a line in such a manner that the one following it appeared less distinctâ.
[My theory is that that this shifting is pretty much all about your muscles -> you shift certain distance, then narrow the distance which makes the muscles get used to smaller and smaller (microscopic) movements - like the natural ones, the eye does when healthy. Muscles are bigger/stronger/better when the have practice.]
And here is my question â I find it hard to get sth to see it distinct from other letters. I am practicing with page of text from Bates book. I mean to see a letter blacker than others around it. I think Bates said that you need to find exactly the right distance, but for yourself, and keep working. He said in hard cases you should work with two lights. Did you Nancy start shifting with lights, and then moved to letters? How did you noticed your distinct/less distinct area? How was it in your case â I mean the beginning, I hope if I follow the good pattern (and as you simply âmade itâ it should be more than good) things would start rolling in the right direction.
4. What actually goes next? As above exercises are to relax, there were some to improve the "sharpness"/"quality". What comes here.
5. The last step how to read (for more than 30 minutes) to read like "normal vision" people?
From my last blog response where you asked this same question about shifting:
Quote:Cezar, hello again. I made a lot of mistakes on my vision improvement path, one of which was TRYING to see a letter darker or clearer than another, rather than NOTICING it darker. This trying behavior is so ingrained in me that loosening it took a long time, and is still to some degree something I have to pay attention to. If you canât see the difference with letters on the eye chart or in a book, that the one youâre focusing on is clearer and darker and everything else is less distinct, try it with bigger letters, or objects farther apart. This is central fixation, a fundamental principle of the Bates Method. When you start, being used to seeing everything equally clearly (which glasses train you to do), it takes a while to look at one thing at a time, and you have to start with big things and over time move to smaller and smaller ones.
I think itâs more of a brain conditioning than an eye one to see a smaller area at a time, in my opinion. Your attention shifts (moves) to a different small point, and your gaze follows. The brain leads â the eyes, for all their sophistication, are only servants following the brainâs direction. I hope this is helpful.
It made me laugh when you led with "you have no idea how hard it is to remain calm" -- yes, I do! I encourage you to do activities or practices which relax you, whether it be walks in Nature or meditation or whatever. This is as important to me as direct vision practice like the eye chart.
I never thought of developing an algorithm for seeing, but I guess if I did, being present and centered would be first (breathing easily of course), then looking with easy attention at what you're interested in, then shifting over it in smaller and smaller shifts as the clarity emerges. This is what I do when practicing with the chart.
Shift between bigger letters to see the one you're looking at darker and clearer, if you're not seeing this with smaller letters at first.
As you start to see some results, even momentary ones, congratulate yourself: your eyes are getting healthier. As letters get clearer, stay with it, as long as you're still relaxed, shifting over smaller areas, and you should see the image get clearer still. You can do this on road signs and trees when you're taking a walk as well as with the eye chart.
Actually what I do find hard is not getting the information concerning the âshiftingâ excercise, because I read it In Bates book and his articles, and In another sources including this forum. But it does not change the fact that I still do not understand it correctly, I suppose. I need someone to explain to me (concentrating on the parts that seem extremely trivial or obvious).
I found sth like this: Ask yourself if you notice the universal swing. Only if so are you shifting correctly. [I am definitely not sure whether I have this, if it is about the whole page, yes it seems to swing] Ask yourself if you are resisting feelings of muscular strain or mental anxiety that arise while you shift, or merely noticing these feelings. Only when not resisting but merely noticing these sensations are you shifting correctly. [I do not even feel capable of being aware of this] Ask yourself if you see your vision improve slightly within a few shifts (in seconds, not minutes). Only if so are you shifting correctly. If you don't see at least some immediate, temporary, improvement, you're doing something wrong. [This confused the sh.t out of me, It tooks great deal of time â like warm up â to start seeing better, I do not know whether it is minutes of 60 shifts, but definitely not 6. Maybe later, it gets clearer after six, but only after at least 20 minutes of shifting from Snellen card to window (as Bates said we should find a bright point on the wall, but maybe I should start to lower the distance) and back, but the lowest lines on the card start getting double image â with at least inch distance between them. That is what started to scare me. Is this bad? Please Nancy comment on this because I am simply trying to tell you that I am worried whether I misunderstood this technique. And as it is so vital in the process of training I do not want to learn it bad, just at the inception.]
If somebody could clarify this like the person he speaks to is a retarded, lobotomised chimpanzee, I would be very grateful, because yes it is hard to me to understand it. At first I thougth I got this, but the more I read about it, the less confident I am whether I am doing it right.
Cezar, take a deep breath and slow down. You don't expect a kindergarten child to graduate from college in a week! There are levels of mastery at this, like any other skill -- I'd let go of the idea that you're doing it all wrong, and as I've said before insulting yourself won't help. We are all at different stages of learning, even those who have very good vision.
It takes you a long time to see more clarity, longer periods of shifting, because it is not your natural habit yet, and you have a lot of strain. If you NEVER saw improvement, I'd say you need to change what you're doing. You wrote "It tooks great deal of time â like warm up â to start seeing better, I do not know whether it is minutes of 60 shifts, but definitely not 6." Well great! You're learning something -- you have learned how to make your vision better! As you practice more, and undo the wrong straining habits, it won't take as long.
It took me several years of supposedly doing the Bates Method (which I didn't completely understand at the time) before I started doing the chart, and it was very frustrating for me because my vision was so poor. Have the chart close enough so that you can see the first couple of lines, even if that means it is a foot away. Yes, it's disheartening and you might feel like a failure at something "everyone else" can do, but you have to start where you are. Give yourself credit for wanting to improve and be healthier, and get going.
If something in the Bates book makes no sense yet or seems too hard, do what you can now and focus on what you do understand, and build on that. More will come as you keep practicing. Look for clarity whenever you look, details and colors and edges and shadows, in a curious interested way, not with strain. I'm at the point now where most of my awake time is "vision practice", because I want to see as clearly as I can, and you might get to this point too.
To add to what Nancy wrote, I should add that you are the best judge of whether you are doing something correctly or not. Remember that the Bates techniques are all supposed to be reasonably simple. The only thing that is complicated is the infinite number of ways there are to do it incorrectly. Don't overthink it. Just try what seems right to you, and if you run into problems or feel like you're doing it wrong, then that would be the time to re-read Bates, read the advice of others on this forum, etc.
I assure you that when I was starting out, I didn't understand a whole lot of the terms that people were mentioning so often. But after a lot of experimentation, I'm at the point where I feel I'm starting to get it. Think of Sean's advice as potential ideas for discovering what you are doing wrong. If you haven't had a lot of practice with shifting yet, there's not much reason to start asking yourself those questions just yet. Instead, start by listening to your mind and body and see if you're getting any feedback. And then, just go from there.
Again, you are making it more complicated than it is. Move your attention from one side of the chart to the other. Your gaze will shift with your attention. If the distance your gaze shifts is large enough for your current level of acuity, what you shift to will be darker and clearer than what you have shifted away from.
I was doing some exercises recently, most of the time during last three days. I think the more you are under stress conditions the larger would be the distance where you can actually perceive the swing of letters between two points you are actually shifting from one another.
Those exercises in his book seem so trivial, so easy, and he actually did cure people in matter of minutes, this is what frightens me, maybe there is "this very easy way" as Bates states it, but why is it so hard to find it for us?
I do not know whether you guys felts sth similar, but when I was closing my eyes I tried to feel my muscles around eyes smooth and relaxed. In some strange way I think you can "persuade" your muscles to relax, but only after second I felt that sth wants those muscles tensed again. I always thought that it should be for instance easy to drop weight for people with obesity as I was pretty much "thin" guy. But now I start to understand I am pretty much like those really fat guys but on the other side. I think they really want to change they lives, but old habits and their bodies are pretty much very against those changes. How small I was.
But, back to talking about eyes, when I start shifting with the biggest letter ("C") and when I look at the base I see it less black/grey than the top, when I go top I see top worse, more grey, less black. Did anyone came across this? If yes how did you manage to overcome this?
Bates fundamentals: make the distance you are shifting large enough that you see the point you're looking at best, and the point you shifted away from worse. The big C may not be big enough for this at your current level of vision. (Don't worry -- it WILL get better.) Get closer to the chart so the letters are relatively larger for you, and try again, or pick something else like the top and bottom of a chair to shift between. As you convince yourself that you see best where you are looking and everything else worse, shorten the distance and repeat.
ok, I'll try. I was using "smaller version of snellen chart" - a4 paper as it is much more convenient if you are travelling, but I will simply try with bigger one or just do as you said. Thank you Nancy.
For all my life I've been told there is no rainbow, and then one guy wrote a book that I came across by pure accident and this guy says of course there is a rainbow and it is pretty much for everybody for free, right now. Apart from that Bates writes about it like it is the most obvious thing in the entire universe. In my opinion its like saying whether planets go around the sun or the other way around.