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Re: eyes uneven

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Re: eyes uneven
#1
Hello. I got my first pair of glass this past summer at age 20. I have a military pilot slot and MUST keep my vision below 20/40 before I go in for officer training this summer. My vision at the doctor's office this past summer was 20/25R and 20/40L. I did this just as a check of my vision and refused to wear the glasses except if I could absolutely not see something (night driving when tired or reading the board from a far distance). I have read some bates method books and started using plus lenses for close work. I have checked my vision a lot recently and on my own, my vision seems to be 20/15-20/20R and 20/30-20/40R. With my prescription glasses on I can read 20/13L and 20/13-20/15R. This angered me since my prescription was obviously far too high. My question is, how do I go about using plus lenses/bates to clear my left eye. My right eye is VERY sharp and it is VERY annoying to have one (very slightly) blurry eye. It seems difficult to clear one eye at a time, and I have had little progress doing so.
Reply
#2
Dear JoBoy,

I am a pilot (private) who had his vision DESTROYED by
that minus lens.

You choice to reject it (unless absolutely necessary -- is
WISE.

This is a Bates site, and Dave has permitted me
to post under "other vision improvement methods".

I would read that commentary, and if you
wish, click on:

<!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.myopiafree.com">http://www.myopiafree.com</a><!-- w -->

for further support to clear your Snellen
back to 20/25 and perhaps 20/20 (by
your own checking.

I have an IVAC Snellen for you to personally
CHECK yourself.

Also a lot of pilot-related information
since that is your goal.

And I do support both, or all methods that
you use -- and are successful for you.

Best,

Otis
Reply
#3
Dear Friend,

JoBoy> ...and started using plus lenses for close work. I have checked my vision a lot recently and on my own, my vision seems to be 20/15-20/20R and 20/30-20/40R. With my prescription glasses on I can read 20/13L and 20/13-20/15R.

Otis> These majority-opinion ODs LOVE to over-prescribe that
minus lens.  There is nothing we can do about that
issue.

Otis> I am curious about your prescription.  Sounds like
about -1/2 to -3/4 diopters with some "astigmatism".

Otis> The plus is never "easy".  It takes persistence
to use is correctly.

This angered me since my prescription was obviously far too high.

Otis>  At 20/20 naked eye you would pass
all the DMV tests.

Otis> It is good to know where you can get a reduced
minus lens.  Zenniopical.com has them for about $10


My question is, how do I go about using plus lenses/bates to clear my left eye.

Otis> While I agree with Bates on many issues -- Bates
does not promote the use of the plus for prevention.
This is a Bates site, not a plus-prevention site.
In my opinion, you must clear BOTH eyes together.
A SLIGHT difference between the eyes is normal.
If you have the persistence, I think you could
clear your vision to the extent that both eyes
would pass the 20/20 line, and together
would see 20/15.  That would pass the
FAA requirement.  Also, if you can get
your naked eye vision to that level,
then you could use a weak minus exclusively
for flight.


My right eye is VERY sharp and it is VERY annoying to have one (very slightly) blurry eye. It seems difficult to clear one eye at a time, and I have had little progress doing so.

Otis>  In my judgment, both eyes must be cleared together.

Otis> Your vision is very good indeed.  The amount
you are "out" is about 1/4 to 1/2 diopter.

Best,

Otis
Reply
#4
my prescription I think is -1.25 in my left and -.25 in my right. The right eye prescription is absolutely unnecessary because depending on the day, I can see 20/15, 20/20 or 20/25. My right vision scares me because the military requirement for me is 20/40-0 on a military chart (10 character lines). So if my vision is 20/40, that means on a bad day it could be worse. I'd rather clear it as much as possible so that my worst day is still above 20/40. I hear so many great stories on these sites about clearing vision to 20/20, certainly with vision as close to normal as mine is, so I am very optimistic and I truly believe this is possible. I have doubts but I want to be as positive about this as possible, because I know this is mainly in the head. As of now, I have started making sure I blink ever 2-4 seconds, I don't stare anymore, and I try to trace the road lanes when driving or trace the TV edges when watching TV. Sometimes after palming or walking out of the bathroom or something, I'll look over at the chart and see the 20/20 line with my "bad" eye. Is this a "clear flash"? I don't do a lot of the "exercises" like swinging and and those things as I'm a bit private about this, and while living in a college dorm room, it may look weird to roommates. I have a month break in a week and I'll do a lot of that while I'm home. How long before I can expect to see some results?

thanks for all the help guys. Maybe we can add a NAVAL aviator to the list of people who have cleared vision.  Smile
Reply
#5
Dear JoBoy,

No one near, and no OD or MD can EVER give you
perfect advice.

But the more you know about some details -- the better
might be your decision or choice.

It is my opinion that you should ALWAYS check your
own IVAC Snellen at 20 feet.  Be confident in yourself.
Use the STANTARD definition of 20/20.  Get some
hard-copy Snellens and read them out doors.

It is my opinion that these ODs do not test to
the REQUIRED standard, but feel that  they
should "crank" on their phoropters and give
you very, very sharp vision -- and ignore the 'law"
on the subject.  I OBJECT to that attitude.

It is true that your "night" vision will be different,
and using a MILD minus would be OK.  These
are my OWN opinions of course.


Jo>  my prescription I think is -1.25 in my left and -.25 in my right. The right eye prescription is absolutely unnecessary because depending on the day, I can see 20/15, 20/20 or 20/25.

Otis>  As before, a difference of 1/2 diopter is normal.  I think
that the -1.25 diopter is WAY over done.  I would
suggest getting 2 lenses from zenniopical, a -1/2 and
a -1 diopters -- to check youself.  (Optional, but
I always would check my own measurements.)
If it takes a -1/2 to clear your left eye to 20/20,
then the refractive STATE is -1/2 diopter.  Use
your own judgment.

Otis>  Most DMV specify both eyes together,
and open.  We always see with the better
of two eyes, and so you would have 20/20
by most standards.

Otis> The JAA requires 20/30 in each eye
separately, and 20/20 with both eyes.


My right vision scares me because the military requirement for me is 20/40-0 on a military chart (10 character lines). So if my vision is 20/40, that means on a bad day it could be worse.

Otis>  Understood.

I'd rather clear it as much as possible so that my worst day is still above 20/40.

Otis> The amount of "clearing" required depends on the
amount of "minus" needed to clear the left eye to 20/20.
I think -1.25 diopters is excessive.  I think the more
accurate value would be about -1/2 to -3/4 diopters.

Otis>  But the method of "clearing" is to use a +2.5
diopter to +3 diopter for all reading, and all close
work -- very consistently.  And monitor your Snellen.

Otis>  Other pilots have done it -- but each of us
is different.  It is easy to say.  But it takes
great personal resolution to do it.

Otis>  I consider the minus DEADLY.  I consider
it a necessary evil.  This was Bate's opinion also.

Otis> The plus has been recommended for
the last 100 year for prevention.  But it takes
great personal will to do it -- of that there
is no doubt.

Otis>  Do you have a plus -- and what power?
How long have you been using it?

Best,

Otis
Reply
#6
I have a pair of +1.25 and +2.00 reading glasses I got at the store. I have been using the +2.00 for about 2 weeks now and the +1.25 for maybe a week or so. I usually wear the +1.25 as much as I can, whether it is walking around campus, watching TV or sitting in front of the computer (with my eyes as far back as it takes to get my left eye to the blur point). I will use the 2.00 when reading or doing my engineering homework, sometimes I'll stack the 1.25 and 2.00 together for such close work. Should I be reading at JUST the blur point? Should the blur point be for my left eye or should I completely blur my left eye and bring it to the blur point in my right eye? Should I practice moving the book in and out of the blur point to hopefully coax my focal distance outward?

thanks
Reply
#7
Dear JoBoy,

Let me say that plus-prevention is not easy.  Further,
you have very good vision, based on YOUR reading of
your Snellen.

Since you see 20/40, (on your Snellen), I think you
are over-prescribed at -1.25 D.  I would bet that
if you had a -3/4 to -1/2 diopter lens, that would
clear the 20/40 line to 20/20 for your left eye.

I have learned to distrust the OD measurements --sorry
to say.

I would consider ordering a -1/2 and -1/4 diopter lens
from zennioptical for $10 -- just to do your OWN
checking.  That will tell you a lot.

Vision "clearing" like this is slow, but I would suggest
that a combination of trusting yourself, reading
your Snellen for 8 to 12 weeks should give
you better-than 20/20 for BOTH eyes.

But no one will see that but you.  And it is not easy
by a long shot.

I would not "argue" with these ODs.  They are
arrogant beyond belief.  But part of what
you learn must be how you "deal" with them -- after
you read 20/20 on your Snellen.  But first you
must get there.

Some more commentary:


I have a pair of +1.25 and +2.00 reading glasses I got at the store. I have been using the +2.00 for about 2 weeks now and the +1.25 for maybe a week or so.

Given that you are at 20/20 or close to -- I would suggest
+3.25 for reading.  There will be slight blur -- but
I think you can "work" with it.

I usually wear the +1.25 as much as I can, whether it is walking around campus, watching TV or sitting in front of the computer (with my eyes as far back as it takes to get my left eye to the blur point).

Otis> I would wear the +1.25 when you get up in the morning,
and around the house.

Otis>  Alternatively, I would just use a +2.75 to +3.25 for
all reading and computer work. 

Otis> For out doors I would not wear the plus -- unless
you want to.


I will use the 2.00 when reading or doing my engineering homework, sometimes I'll stack the 1.25 and 2.00 together for such close work.


Otis> I would plan to use a +3 to +3.25 for all computer and
home work -- for a stronger effect.  This must, however
be a matter of your judgment.

Should I be reading at JUST the blur point?

Otis> Or slightly into the blur point.  The goal is to
get the maximum effect out of your wearing of the plus.

Should the blur point be for my left eye or should I completely blur my left eye and bring it to the blur point in my right eye?

Otis> Keep both eyes open, and find the just-blur point
and read that way.

Otis>  Also, as a good check, read the Snellen THROUGH
the +1.25 and tell me what line you read with both
eyes.  I suspect the 20/60 line.

Otis> Also, for most commercial tests, you must
read or guess 1/2 the letters correctly to pass the
line.  (Yes the military is different -- but we will
deal with that later.)

Should I practice moving the book in and out of the blur point to hopefully coax my focal distance outward?

Otis> Yes.  Let me add the following.  You must have a Snellen
on the wall.  As you do this exercise, look over the
top of the plus and read the Snellen.  This interactive
work can clear a line or two on the Snellen.  Try it.

Otis> Also, tennis and other outdoor sports are excellent.

Otis> A large percentage of basball players have superior
vision.

Otis>  You have done this for two weeks.  It takes
about 6 weeks to begin to see the effect. 

Otis> If we are right, then very clear vision in
about 12 weeks.

Otis> But, it truly takes WILL-POWER.

Otis>  And use Bates -- and your own judgment.

Otis>  While people "beat me up" on this site -- I do
support Bate's statement about the minus.  I suggest
we have a common goal -- and we MUST work together
to support you.

Best,

Otis


thanks
Reply
#8
Dear JoBoy,

Also it is good to develop a "perspective" of your
refractive STATE.  See:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.geocities.com/otisbrown17268/DynamicEye.html">http://www.geocities.com/otisbrown17268/DynamicEye.html</a><!-- m -->

On these graphs, you are at zero or slightly negative.

As you vision clears, your refractive STATE necessarily
changes in a positive direction.

Not that the Eskimos with MINIMUM schooling have
positive refractive STATES and EXCELLENT VISION.

The same is true for primates in the "wild".

Also note that the eye's total power is about
60 diopters.  To clear your vision will
take about 6/10 to 3/4 diopter change.  Or
about 1 percent of the eye's total power.

This is a very small amount indeed.

But that change will give you 20/20.

Keep an open mind.

The more you know about these issues
and details -- the better you will be
able to protect yourself -- and your
distant vision.


Best,

Otis
Reply
#9
thanks for your help and support Otis.

I checked just now and with both eyes I read 15/50 on my snellen with the +1.25 lenses. I look forward to putting in some SERIOUS effort over the next 12 weeks. I MUST clear my vision, so in my mind, there is no alternative. I am very committed and very positive about this. Smile Ideally I would love to have 20/15 vision in both eyes, but for the sake of my career, if my eyes simply maintained 20/40 I'll be ecstatic so with that I'll view ANYTHING from here as an improvement even if it is my vision remaining where it is. After reading the computer screen with the two glasses stacked (+3.25) for the past hour or so with my right eye (the good eye) patched so my left eye would be worked by itself, I read 15/25 on my snellen. While this may be temporary, I view it as progress toward my end goal.

I'll keep you posted regularly as to my progress!
Reply
#10
Dear JoBoy,

I is easy to say what must be done.  But doing
it is difficult -- since it does require very strong
PERSONAL commitment. 

Some more commentary:


thanks for your help and support Otis.

I checked just now and with both eyes I read 15/50 on my snellen with the +1.25 lenses.

Otis>  That is a good "marker", and is the one of the ways to
measure progress.  As your vision clears, the 15/50 will improve.
This is a "positive buffer" you need to develop.  The Eskimos
living out doors would be able to see 15/15 through a +1.25 diopter
lens.  This is also called "hyperopic buffer".  You do not
have to get to 15/15 through a plus, but 15/30 would be
an excellent goal.


I look forward to putting in some SERIOUS effort over the next 12 weeks. I MUST clear my vision, so in my mind, there is no alternative.

Otis>  The real difficulty is persistence.  Most people simply do not have
that kind of "goal-purpose".  The minus you now have indicate
that:

1.  Your retinas are good.

2.  You have NO MEDICAL PROBLEM with your retinas or eyes.

3.  You have a SLIGHT negative refractive STATE.

Other pilots have done this -- as you can see on my site.


I am very committed and very positive about this.  Ideally I would love to have 20/15 vision in both eyes, but for the sake of my career, if my eyes simply maintained 20/40 I'll be ecstatic so with that I'll view ANYTHING from here as an improvement even if it is my vision remaining where it is.

Otis> It is important that you read the 20/20 line (1/2 the letters correctly), and
perhaps 3/4 the letters with some on the 20/15 line.  Once you get to
that goal -- you will have some confidence in your visual future.  I never
make claims -- util after a person reaches a goal.

After reading the computer screen with the two glasses stacked (+3.25) for the past hour or so with my right eye (the good eye) patched so my left eye would be worked by itself, I read 15/25 on my snellen. While this may be temporary, I view it as progress toward my end goal.

Otis> In encouraging others to work on this goal -- it is a matter of
two steps forward -- and one step back.  That is why "sticking" to
the effort is important when you see this natural variation in
your Snellen.  You are looking for AVERAGE clearing.

I'll keep you posted regularly as to my progress

Otis>  Just be patient and persistent. 

Otis>  We all want very, very shap vision instantly -- and also
prevention.  We simply can not have both.

Otis>  The majority-opinion ODs LIVE on that quick-fix minus
we all "love".

Otis> It takes excellent jugement to break that "cycle" before
you even get into it.

Otis> Keep posting your thoughts -- and we all will
help you to the best of our ability.

Otis>  Also read:

<!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.chinamyopia.org">http://www.chinamyopia.org</a><!-- w -->

To confirm that there ARE second-opinion ODs who are
helping the public -- if the public will accept their help
with the plus.


Best,

Otis
Reply
#11
I noticed something interesting. I forgot my + lenses today and after working on some work today at the computer for a couple of hours, I noticed something interesting. While my vision gets blurrier after hours of close work, my left eye (the worse eye) tends to get significantly worse than the right. This is not to say it gets terrible. I could probably still read 20/40 and certainly 20/50 with ease, but my left eye only gets a little worse.

Another interesting fact is that while brushing my teeth last night, I noticed my left pupil is noticeably bigger than my right. I checked this by moving around to ensure both eyes were under equal lighting, and it appeared that my left pupil was definitely bigger under all lighting conditions. Perhaps this is why my left eye is blurrier than my right eye? Perhaps my right eye's smaller pupil creates more of a pinhole effect and allows for a clearer image? Perhaps I should do some near/far focal exercises and light/dark exercises to work my iris muscle to help it contract easier? I don't know if anyone else has noticed something like this, but does anyone have any insight?

Damn these engineering projects... >Sad
Reply
#12
Dear JoBoy,

Subject: Getting pulled into small detail -- while
missing the "big picture".

Re:  With respect -- we all tend to do it.

With vision at times about 20/20 (both eyes open)
you are in good shape.  Many on this site envy you
your DMV perfect vision.

There is indeed a SMALL difference in refractive STATE
between your two eyes of about 1/2 diopter.  This is
common an normal.

The goal of the plus is to get BOTH eyes to change in
a positive direction.  After several months, your
eyes will change by +1/2 diopter, (i.e., your
snellen THROUGH a plus will clear).

When that happens BOTH eyes will be clear --  and
I suspect the difference will lessen.  But you will
not find this out until you "get there", six weeks
to three months from now.

Also, I never recommend you wear a plus for
driving, unless you confirm your Snellen as
PASSING the STATE DMV. 

But you can wear that +1.25 at all other times,
if you don't mind the "commentary" you will
receive. 

Or you could just tell them the truth, that you
wish to clear your vision and this is part
of a scientific experiment -- and send
them to <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.myopiafree.com">http://www.myopiafree.com</a><!-- w -->

After all --  you win and they lose.

Some more commentary:

++++++++++++

I noticed something interesting. I forgot my + lenses today and after working on some work today at the computer for a couple of hours, I noticed something interesting. While my vision gets blurrier after hours of close work, my left eye (the worse eye) tends to get significantly worse than the right.

Otis> I agree -- that is an accurate observation.  And if you
wore that -1.25 prescribe for you while at the computer,
your left eye would be profoundly worse.

This is not to say it gets terrible. I could probably still read 20/40 and certainly 20/50 with ease, but my left eye only gets a little worse.

Otis> Then get back to wearing that plus.

Another interesting fact is that while brushing my teeth last night, I noticed my left pupil is noticeably bigger than my right.

Otis> When ever ANYONE begins wearing a plus they
notice MANY things they never noticed before.  I would
agre that the two things tend to go together -- if you wish.

I checked this by moving around to ensure both eyes were under equal lighting, and it appeared that my left pupil was definitely bigger under all lighting conditions. Perhaps this is why my left eye is blurrier than my right eye?

Otis> It is true that for reasons of "depth of field" effects,
a larger aperture would have more blur than a small
aperture.


Perhaps my right eye's smaller pupil creates more of a pinhole effect and allows for a clearer image?

Otis> Same thing as depth-of-focus.

Perhaps I should do some near/far focal exercises and light/dark exercises to work my iris muscle to help it contract easier?

Otis> No, just be very persistent with that plus lens.  Clearing
takes TIME.


I don't know if anyone else has noticed something like this, but does anyone have any insight?

Otis> Yes, at times one pupil was larger than the other -- for
my "poorer" eye.  And I noticed it.

Damn these engineering projects...

Otis> The "engineering project" is to keep you focused (pardon
the pun) on:

1.  You Snellen.

2.  The fact the vision clearing is difficult and
takes great persistence.

3.  Your goal is to read 20/40 through a +1 diopter
lens.  Do that and you will be at 20/20 for BOTH EYES.

4.  Do that and your NIGHT vision will improve.

5.  Do that and you will have a "protective buffer"
that will allow you to keep you vision clear
through your flight career.

As always, none of this is easy.

Why do you think that 88 percent of Hong Kong
students are myopic?

Keep on posting.  This is to encourage you
and to support you.

Best,

Otis
Reply
#13
Dear JoBoy,

Subject: The arrogance (and ignorance) of the majority-opinion OD.

Please read:

"The incredible arrogance of the majority-opinion optometrist."

I have met GOOD second-opinion ODs.  They were
KIND and COMPASSIONATE and TOLD ME THE TRUTH.

(A tough but honest truth indeed.)

But some are real jerks.  Bates found this out also,
although he did not spell it out as I have.

This means that you must "do it yourself" -- and
that is the hardest lesson to learn of all.

Yes, you should have "medical" checks -- no problem.

But you should have already cleared and confirmed
20/20 on your IVAC Snellen BEFORE you go
for these "checks".

Then if they prescribe a -1.25 diopter lens -- you
can go home, read 20/20 and ignore their
arrogance.

But be wise about it.  But remember you can
not deal with the arrogance of these people.

And you must pass the 20/20 line.

Best,

Otis
Reply
#14
I fully intend to keep up the + lenses. I can see slight differences as I use them and the snellen gets clearer through the +1.25 every day.

And By "Engineering Project" I meant the school work I have. It is a LOT of sitting in front of the computer. I am a senior in Aerospace Engineering. I graduate in may, then go on to Navy Pilot training! Smile
Reply
#15
Dear JoBoy,

I am an electrical engineer.

As an aerospace engineer you are going to understand
that the natural eye is a dynamic system.

In fact, judging from an "input" versus "output", it
is a first-order control system.

The transfer function is 1/ (Tau s + 1)

It checks out as a closed-loop system.

It is two stage, with the accommodation system
being the "first" system with a time-constant of
about 3/4 second.

The second system controls the refractive STATE
of the eye, and has a time-constant of 100 days.
(Best judgment of the existing experimental data.)

This is a judgment of all natural eyes, not one eye.

It must be assumed that the each eye (as part of
the population) has the same behavior.

I think the difference between a majority-opinion OD is they
must deliver a "solution" is 5 minutes -- or else. 

Thus if a "solution" does not "impress" in 5 minutes -- it
is rejected.  Maybe all people are that superficial.

But when you get "deeper" into this subject, you
realize that they simply are attempting to deal
with a situation that is simply out-of-control.  The
only thing I object is their insufferable arrogance.

But that then places all responsibility on you
to take actions that only your wisdom and
judgment can control.

The only person who can ever "control" his
distant vision is the person who understands
these issues -- to his own personal advantage.

So yes, this is indeed a scientific "experiment", where
you are the control-system engineer doing the
measurements with N = 1.

Best,

Otis
Reply

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