I've seen improvements! I've had two clear flashes that have lasted around 3-4 minutes and, through some shifting and heavy central fixation, I can usually get the very center of my vision to increase almost every time I try by shifting and focusing on central fixation in adequate lighting.
I started back in early January, and I was EXTREMELY skeptical that such a method could work to improve vision, but since then I have come to realize that Bates' techniques really do show improvement.
I started this topic to detail what works for me and everything about how I'm going about this. My primary audience is intended to be skeptics, because I was once one.
Also, a million thanks go out to everyone on this community, especially Dave for setting it up and hosting it.
I want to post a lot of information, so I will post it in chunks every day or so. I am MYOPIC, so if you have any other condition, what I say might not apply to you. For reference, I am at, on average, 20/200. Dave: feel free to correct me on anything that I say that is incorrect.
Today is...
SHIFTING
When I first searched for what techniques to practice, I came across these:
-Palming
-Sunning
-Shifting
-Swinging
Swinging was what seemed most important to a lot of people, so I tried to find out exactly WHAT swinging was. I read weird stuff about flinging your body about and swinging your hands and hips and stuff, (but the utmost respect to people who find this useful for them, I never do it) and I had no idea what the objective was: yes to "see the swing of things," but that meant absolutely nothing to me. And you probably won't understand it fully until you become more experienced seeing what works for you. But my best attempt to define this is the following:
Seeing the swing of things:
I THINK (at least, what this means to me) this is a sort of figurative way to say that when you're moving your eyes around, you're "focusing" on what you're looking at. I found that before I started to see success and really understand what this "swing" is that when I moved my eyes, I was focused on my farther clear point.
Go ahead---give it a try Try to move your eyes in a smooth straight line along from one point to another across, say, your room. I found that I often would focus on my farther clear point and not actually be focused on the distant objects that I was trying to see. Here's a good example to show that when you try to look at something in the distance that you're focusing on your farther clear point. Look at something in the distance, and then put your index finger vertically in front of your face very up close, but mostly out of your vision. Then, slowly bring your index finger away from your face very close to your center of vision. If you pay attention to the focus of your finger, you'll notice that it goes into sharp focus close in front of your face if your vision is similar in scale to mine---even though you're focusing on a distant object! It is easier to see this if you have a window screen available: from far away, try to focus on a distant object, and then approach the screen. Eventually, the screen will come into sharp focus despite your intention to focus on a farther away object.
So, back to the swing---seeing the "swing" doesn't mean that objects jump around in your vision or anything, but simply that you are able to move your eyes in a straight line SMOOTHLY without focusing on this farther clear point.
This brings us to shifting. I read somewhere by a user on this forum that when they're outside that they typically run their eyes along the edges of buildings and other objects. I tried this out, and lately running my eyes around the edges of anything really helps to improve this habit: whether it's a box the professor drew on the blackboard or a building in the distance. Kudos to whoever mentioned that, because you are the reason I'm having success.
Shifting is just that---running your eyes along the edges of something, or in some line in general, and attempting to keep your vision focused on the point that you're looking at, rather than focusing on your farther clear point, and moving in this line as SMOOTHLY as possible. If you have a hard time doing it, start SLOWLY first. I practice this all the time, and I feel it is the exercise that I benefit the most from. I do a lot of computer work, and even as I'm typing this I'm "shifting" the lines of text that I'm writing and seeing clearer and clearer. Also, don't expect immediate results: I did it for two weeks before seeing improvement, and I did focus on a few other things as well.
Despite how bad it is made out to be, I find that close work like using the computer is actually beneficial because it helps me practice shifting. Even as I type this, I see the lines clearer every few seconds. When I blink it goes away---so I definitely have to work on blinking properly. To shift, it also helps if you can see the object somewhat clearly.
I hope I'm able to explain things well. I will write back soon on another topic that has been beneficial to me, and eventually cover mostly everything that I know on this topic. Feel free to post questions and remember skeptics: if you're in my situation or better, there is likely great hope if you have the dedication and persistence to follow this program for natural vision improvement!
Hey Noah, thanks for posting. I'm about 20/230, and I find it very difficult to go without glasses, but I do it most of the time. Do you work at the computer without glasses?
I just wanted to pass on my understanding of swinging. I believe that swinging is an exercise for the eyes to re-learn their natural motion. The idea is to notice objects moving in the opposite direction of the eyes, and with regular practice, this helps the eyes regain their natural saccadic movement. Swinging needs to be practiced regularly for a long period of time until it becomes natural and unconscious again.
I believe that tracing objects also helps in this respect. And while swinging, I don't believe you should be consciously trying to focus on anything.
BTW, what do you mean by your "farther clear point"?
Yes, I work at the computer and read without glasses; in fact, I try to do almost everything (especially close work) without glasses. The only time that I wear my glasses is for driving (but I'm at college right now, so I use public transportation) and for seeing the blackboard (I have four classes a day, and I try to sit in the VERY front center in all of them). In my classes, I usually hold my glasses and only look through them when I can't figure out what's being written down by what he's saying and by the general motion of his hands that I am able to notice with the naked eye.
About these clear points that I'm talking about: I'm not sure what the formal name for them is, but there is a distance from your face I call the "nearer clear point" in which if any objects get closer than that you are unable to focus on them clearly. The "farther clear point" is the pretty much the opposite---the farthest point away which you can see clearly.
For example, bring your index finger to touch the tip of your nose., then try to focus on it: you probably can't. But if you bring it farther away, you will soon be able to. This would be your nearer clear point. Then, keep bringing your index finger out, and you'll notice that for a while, you're seeing your finger clearly. Then, all of the sudden you get too far for your eyes to focus (because you're nearsighted!), and the last point at which your finger was clear is your farther clear point.
And yes, I know that it is difficult to go without glasses, but Bates, likely this entire community, and myself all feel that glasses will halt your progress with these methods. Everyone expects that everyone else has perfect vision unless you're blind, so it is hard to go around and engage normally when there are a lot of things you can't see very clearly. If, like me, your friends don't approve of what you're trying to do and think that natural vision improvement is hocus pocus, then it certainly does take great courage and resolve to go around without glasses. If anyone has this problem, just tell your friends that you got contact lenses so that they aren't suspicious when you all of the sudden never wear your glasses.
I thought to make a note about wearing glasses.
I mistakenly thought before that putting on my strong glasses -2.5 D, will make my eyes all back worse again like before, but it is not like that. Making your vision worse also takes time, as you are gaining a new habit, I don't think that putting your glasses on for short periods will delay your progress so much. I think that it may accelerate your improvement in the following situations:
1- When you are very tired and want to work and you unconsciously strain when seeing, using your weaker glasses will help you resolve this problem.
2- When you need to see something and you can't you will strain, and this is the time to use your glasses.
I personally think that keeping your glasses near in hand will make you confident and you will strain less. One can put his glasses away, when he has made a significant improvement and has known how to consciously create clear flashes.
I think when you are tired, you should NOT work and rather take a rest. If you keep working, your eyes will indeed strain, and when you put your glasses on, you will strain them much worse. Ugh, it makes me dizzy just to imagine what kind of strain I would get if I treated myself so cruelly.
Glasses do not reduce strain, it's totally wrong idea! Glasses should be ruthlessly discarded, it's the first fundamental.
Of course, you get only a temporary strain when you put on your glasses, and it can be relatively easily dismissed with palming or something. However, while you are not cured, you are inclined to strain, so it is asymmetric, it is much easier to return to your customary strain when you put on your customary glasses, than to relax afterwards. And of course if you "keep them near in hand" you will certainly allow yourself use them very often and never get cured.
In (Better Eyesight: Oct. 1928--Vol. XIII, No. 4, "No Glasses for Quick Results") Bates states:
"It is true that at one time I did not encourage patients to learn the treatment unless they discarded their glasses permanently. But since I have studied more about my method and have encouraged some of my Clinic patients to wear their glasses at times while under treatment, I find that some of them obtained a cure but it required double the amount of time that was required to cure those who discarded their glasses permanently."
You can wear glasses only when absolutely required to work or drive but it takes longer to get results. Glasses do not have to be ruthlessly discarded like Oleg says, but it's a good idea to avoid using glasses whenever possible.
Spock, please give me the link to this issue of BEM, I haven't found it anywhere.
Anyway, you are trying to manipulate facts. If you search through Bates texts you'll find very many places where Bates is saying that glasses need to be discarded permanently. He is saying that over and over again. He even called his book "Perfect Sight WITHOUT GLASSES"! Doesn't it speak to you?
And even if we assume that there's been times when Bates admitted that for some particularly severe cases glasses can be discarded not at once but gradually, with the reservation that it inevitably retards the cure, you keep suggesting people that they keep wearing their glasses whenever they want, like if they were all severe cases.
Here's what you are doing: overstressing exceptions like if they were the rule, without paying proper attention to the rule itself. This is the typical myopic behaviour - having one's mind stuck and not letting go of a worthless detail without allowing oneself move on to more important things.
Not every Better Eyesight magazine issue can be found online at any given link, even at <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.central-fixation.com">http://www.central-fixation.com</a><!-- w -->, so you don't have the complete magazine compilation, nor all the facts presented before you. You will have to purchase the book and look in it first. The passage is contained in p. 564 of that book, under the "No Glasses for Quick Results" article. This was published late in Bates' career, just before he died in 1931. What if he died before then and never came to this conclusion? Think about how your actions would still be based on an inconclusive statement that glasses MUST be discarded, no matter what.
As you stated earlier in the forums, "Each time you put on your glasses, or each time you light a cigarette, the bad habit returns to the initial state." <--- this would be based on an inconclusive statement by Bates himself that he changed later after further observation. Ask yourself again, what if Bates died before 1928. Wouldn't it be dangerous to take such a forceful stance if such an instance could've happened (by causing you to base your 'facts' on inconclusive 'facts' in the case that history had never revealed it to be inconclusive)?
Oleg K. Wrote:...you keep suggesting people that they keep wearing their glasses whenever they want, like if they were all severe cases.
Read what I posted before your recent post, "You can wear glasses only when absolutely required to work or drive but it takes longer to get results. Glasses do not have to be ruthlessly discarded like Oleg says, but it's a good idea to avoid using glasses whenever possible."
Where does this even imply that I suggest people keep wearing their glasses whenever they want? Please read the context carefully to get a feel for what I really meant. I think you are somewhat distorting the context with your strong feelings against glasses. I am also strongly against glasses but I try to be pragmatic at the same time, for the sake of people who must use glasses for any hope of passing or succeeding a class, or working without risk of losing job because sight is required to read something.
What I am saying is that I believe that it doesn't hurt to be pragmatic, to honestly recognize difficulties. The above instances of school, work, etc are instances when glasses may be absolutely necessary for people with severe cases. An approach which tells people glasses MUST be discarded 100% of the time is based on an inconclusive statement that Bates later fixed. He was scientific (honest with the experimental facts) as well as pragmatic (practical).
Bates later understood that telling people to completely discard glasses could discourage severe cases from giving the Bates Method a chance, due to inability to discard glasses entirely for work, school, driving reasons.
Read the passage again and you'll see that Bates said he "encouraged" people to wear glasses at times during their treatment--under specific circumstances only. Don't misinterpret the word "encouraged" as meaning glasses are good, because they aren't. Rather, "encouraged" means glasses can be used practically in society, with wear time minimized as much as possible, and an added emphasis on going without glasses as much as possible, for those with severe cases.
Does this sound practical to you? All this information is not based on any myopic over-generalization, but a collection of facts in a way that is practical and fair to everyone.
I think spock presents a convincing viewpoint, and Oleg, I admire your passion, and I do believe that discarding glasses increases a person's chances by 10, 100, maybe 1000 times of regaining their natural vision, and accelerates the process.
I am a high myope with 20/230 vision and a clear far point of 6 inches - things start to blur when more than 6 inches away, and the 20 ft line on the eye chart is a complete blur at more than a foot. So it is difficult to work at a computer and it is illegal for me to drive without glasses.
I have still made progress over the last four months, and now I can consciously create clear flashes of varying quality almost at will. I currently wear eyeglasses that are a +2 D add to my prescription. So it's working for me. With my current lifestyle which includes a family and active kids, I have chosen not to stop driving, and not to take an extended leave from my current job.
Also, other "experts" in this field, who have modelled their programs after Bates, recommend wearing transition glasses which corrects vision to 20/40. I am referring to Janet Goodrich and Leo Angart.
Perhaps I was kind of lucky and discarded my contacts pretty easy. I had -3.5 prescription both eyes and about 20/200 myope (I couldn't see even the biggest C). I just put them off and never was even tempted to put them on again. Indeed, I had some fears of not being able to see when I'm outside, but they dismissed soon as it appeared to be quite manageable, and my improvement made it even easier. Of course, I had to somewhat adjust the routine of my life, but in the name of Perfect Sight it was not a question at all, because I desire it so much!
So when I first read how people complain they can't quit glasses and heard Bates teachers saying myopic people fear and panic the idea of perfect sight, I was surprised and couldn't believe, how one with imperfect vision could not want to get cured and do everything to achieve that goal? Why one would not say goodbye to glasses if one can do it?
But now I see. It's a kind of masochism, a perversion when one gains psychological satisfaction from suffering. Okay, it's a free country, go on wearing glasses, lash yourself, and moan as much as you like.
To bkowalski: You said it yourself: you agree to decrease your chances of cure by 10, 100, maybe 1000 times. It means you don't want to get cured, don't fool yourself.
To Spock: Your posts make me feel blurry because of the total strain and noise that lives in your head, which is so typical for a myope (like myself a few months ago). I'd recommend that you invite more Zen in your head or you won't get cured. Do more meditation and restrain yourself from flooding. Since myopia is contagious, from now I will avoid reading and replying to your posts, and so recommend to others.
Oleg K, I agree that's it's very much psychological for a high myope, and that's why I'm working towards overall health and not just vision, which includes studying and starting to practice some of the ancient wisdom traditions. I know that it's a daily struggle with my unconscious mind to want to see clearly again, and it is going to take awhile to undo 35 years of dependency on glasses.
It would be helpful if you explained how you were able to adjust the routine in your life. Maybe when you did this you were single, or at least didn't have kids. Maybe I'm slowly working towards adjusting my life despite these circumstances. How can I say "Sorry kids, you can't be in soccer this year, I'm not able to drive you until my vision improves..." I haven't been able to come up with a strategy to take care of these kinds of things, but I will continue to look... Or maybe this just isn't the right time in my life to take this on...
With posts like this, it does make a person wonder whether to continue... It seems that's what you guys want... like the Karate Kid approach, don't ask why, just do or don't do............
For more than 20 years, Bates said glasses must be discarded completely, but after those 20+ years, Bates updated his repeated statements to say that he's found that glasses can be worn under required circumstances only, and still produce results (even though it may be as much as 1,000 times slower like bkowalski says). The scientific method operates under a similar principle, by adapting to update previous 'facts' that are no longer 100% true. This is something you don't quite understand, Oleg, you have to look at Bates' own statements from a chronological perspective.
Bates eventually permitted glasses under certain conditions only. He considered high myopes' unavoidable situations at school, work, etc, but this was not the only reason he permitted very limited usage of glasses given certain conditions. He did this scientifically through experiences with his own Clinic patients after using his method for a number of years. He arrived at this through his own 'hierarchy of facts', based on a chronological timeline of discoveries, which could override previous discoveries.
Why are you disregarding this simple fact, Oleg? You cling to your own "ideals" which is not based on a final conclusion, and your own 'idealistic' approach can discourage millions of severe cases (the majority of people who may try Bates Method) from trying, simply because you couldn't understand this very simple concept. Also, you resort to childish measures to ignore other posters without having proper feedback / discussion first. The problem with ignoring my posts is that you cannot because you'll have no way to defend your "image" against others who can read my posts which will later on use direct Bates citations with source / date which will show the chronological relevance and easily trump over your non-chronological, "archaic compared to later direct Bates citations" statements.
There's a difference between coming to your own 'ideal' conclusion versus the 'final' conclusion Bates came to. His conclusion about permitting limited usage of glasses was scientific, based on years of observation. This discovery is good news for people with severe vision problems, as long as they understand to use their eyesight responsibly in a way that they try to minimize the use of glasses as much as possible. This discovery shows it's still possible to get results, even though it'll be much slower. You are being too harsh, Oleg, when you assume that a person can easily quit wearing glasses to work, because then that person will get fired. There's nothing wrong with having some sort of hopeful measure in that case.
Discarding glasses entirely is the best way ideally, however it's not always practical for people. If people with severe vision problems gave up glasses entirely, they'll get fired from their jobs and not have money to pay their rents, food and basic needs. How is this practical? What do you do about those people, Oleg?
I am a low myope, currently L: 7/20, R: 10/20. My eyesight has been improving at a rapid speed. Bkowalski is correct that it's very much psychological for high myopes, but it's also psychological for just about everyone who has poor vision because vision is largely a mental process. However, I feel that you are unfairly over-generalizing. You need to be honest with yourself and consider Bates' teachings from a chronological perspective... your conclusions are not accurate. Can you find anything after Oct. 1928 that backs up your claims?
Sorry I've been away for a bit. I do have some updates...
When I first started out, I was at about -4D. After about three days of constant clear flashes left and right that happened during when I made my first post in this thread, I've noticed a seemingly permanent increase in my vision to -3D (I use far focal distance for eye measurements as described by here).
On the topic of glasses, I'm not an expert on Bates by far, but it is my understanding that wearing glasses as little as possible will help bring the quickest results. I'm looking through my glasses about a total of 5 minutes total throughout an entire day (mostly just quick glances to see the blackboard in class), and I'm fortunate enough to be at college and not have to drive anywhere.
As for my original intent of posting about a whole bunch of topics, hopefully I will be able to get another one off this weekend. Tonight I'm going to bed since right now it's past 2am here in NY.
