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SUCCESS :), after 5 years with no luck
#31
Quote:Now I just need to find my root of problem...Smile

Here's great video that will explain few important things. Generally people have no idea that their body and spine is collapsing, and how many little things you need to fix in order to reverse that (I learned you can also reverse scoliosis, and do it VERY FAST). Few years ago I tought myself that I looked normal, but our body is ferfect at masking things. In reality my my head was tilted (no wonder I had astigmatism) to the left, but because my lower body already adopted to that change it was hard to notice (my right leg was shorter, and it provided horizontal position to my head when in fact my head was tilted all the time).
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#32
(04-24-2015, 09:54 AM)Paul888 Wrote:
Quote:Now I just need to find my root of problem...Smile

Here's great video that will explain few important things. Generally people have no idea that their body and spine is collapsing, and how many little things you need to fix in order to reverse that (I learned you can also reverse scoliosis, and do it VERY FAST). Few years ago I tought myself that I looked normal, but our body is ferfect at masking things. In reality my my head was tilted (no wonder I had astigmatism) to the left, but because my lower body already adopted to that change it was hard to notice (my right leg was shorter, and it provided horizontal position to my head when in fact my head was tilted all the time).

Thanks for the video.

The body compensating and masking the fact that the head is tilted; very interesting.

I get this head-neck thing and spine 'off', left leg longer for years (Do a spine twist on a bench to correct it and works pretty good.) Subscribed to the video channel. Going to try the hanging a string to align it to center body and check the mirror. Interesting how one arm forward at computer affects spine, neck. When had neck injury, had to switch mouse to left hand; it did make new problems and same time other old problems caused when used right mouse hand became less. I like the physical therapists and body builder guys better than chiropractors. The PT, massage and body builders teach things you can do yourself and it lasts.

I hear that over and over about the neck-head posture causing astigmatism. Happens sometimes to violin players. Sending video to a student.
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#33
Tell me Paul888, what was your root problem ?
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#34
I once rode in the middle of the back seat of a car with four people. Two in the front and two in the back. I was trying to occupy the middle as best I could, but due to the one person in the back, I had to position my head to the right of my body to occupy the center. After a couple hours of that, I noticed my vision was worse, and I spent the night wringing out that ciliary strain in a parking lot. It does matter more than one would think to have the body centered looking straight ahead, head directly above the body.

I also think looking to the side too much causes astigmatism in the eye that has to look across the body. If you do a lot of writing and write right-handed, I think you are more likely to develop astigmatism in your left eye.
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#35
Quote:Tell me Paul888, what was your root problem ?
In short, I had to fix my entire skeleton. But the problem was, even posture experts today had no clue how our body should look like, their informations were conflicting. But thanks to vision fluctuation I was able to test every single posture advice out there, and found out what works, and what now. If I've done something good to my body, my vision responded, and this is how I was testing every posture advice.

What I learnd is against most posture advices, I olny found out 3 posture experts in entire world, that agree with me (they learned about posture studying kids, and people in remote areas, like africa for example). I can tell you right now, kids have good spine curvatures, and you should learn from them.

[img] [Image: w_ZHJAd.jpg][/img]

kids, and adults in remote areas have very straight necks, and no sticking out vertebraes in their spine on entire lenght.
[Image: Clipboard09.jpg]
[Image: Clipboard0300.jpg]

If you want to see how flat your cervical spine should look like, just go to any kindergarten and see for yourself. If you touch kids necks you will be amazed how flat their cervical line is... compared to yours Wink. Well, it's not exactly "I" shape, but "J".

If you live in modern society your cervical spine will look like this (and your vertebraes, for example C7 will stick out, you will have a little hump there):
[Image: cspine_normal.jpg]

Why 99% adults have "C" curved necks, and why even chiropractors still belive "C" curve is correct one? For them, normal means "average", and in our modern society ALL PEOPLE use chairs with backrests, so all adults will have very different spine compared to kids. If you use backrest, you will always callapse your main shock absorbtion part of your spine (lumbosacral curve), but your BODY NEEDS SHOCK ABSORPTION FOR WALKING. So what will happen, your body will ADOPT, and it will create another shock absorbtion curve in your spine, IN CERVICAL SPINE AREA. You will have no longer sticking buttocks (I like to call it no ass syndrome), but you will have your head sticking out in front of your torso (with big "C" curve).

In remote areas adults still have perfect spine curvatures, and they can transport HUGE WEIGHTS. Guys, ask yoursef, what cervical spine curvature can take such a weight load on your head, "C" or "J" ?
[Image: Facebook_mp4_snapshot_00_40_2015_06_18_16_10_47.png]
[Image: Dude_transports_22_bricks_on_his_head_You_Tube.png]

And this is how average adult looks today
[Image: r_Tvqv_Y.jpg]
What's funny, some posture expert call this picture balanced posture! So what's wrong with this "balanced posture" picture above? Almost everything!

And how people looked years ago, in W. Bates times?
[Image: 6a00d8341cf11753ef0167664c093a970b_pi.jpg]
Their head was directly over torso
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#36
If you stand 15 cm (6in) in front of the wall and lean your back against it, touching the wall with your buttocks, shoulders and head then the biggest distance between your neck and wall shouldn't be more than 5 cm (2in) - that's what's accepted today as 'normal'.

No doubts by your standards, Paul 888, it's simply too much. I bet you wouldn't allow anyone more than 2,5 cm for this depression! Smile

Furthermore, the experts say if you keep your head just an inch ahead that accepted line - it adds up to your neck muscles an extra head-weight.
If you hold your head 5 cm ahead that line to your neck it's like supporting three heads instead of one (12 kg instead of 4). No wonder why people with bad posture had tight neck accompanied by muscle pain and headaches.

I'd like to hear your oppinion: if someone in their mid thirties keeps the head 2,5 cm ahead this 'normal' line (which is not so normal to your standards) can that posture be corrected to 'normal' and how long it would take?
Can that be corrected to what you think to be normal? If so how exactly?
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#37
For anyone interested in proper posture, the gokhale method is amazing! Its simple and easy and there are no exercises you do. Instead it is retraining our modern convenienced bodies how to have proper posture. The slumping, the neck craning... All of it is awful for us! But the chairs and cars and all modern things push us toward that way of holding our bodies. Watch "walk this way" by Esther gokhale on YouTube. It is literally changing my life and those around me. My husband is a massage therapist mfr technique mostly, and he's blown away by the simple logic of how our bodies should work. It will help muscle imbalances, ease back and other pain, and help you to look good!! I also have the PDF of her book so if you are interested send me a pm and I will send it to you!

Edit:and now I see that her work has been helping paul88 because most of those images 2 posts up are from Esther. So yea, its frickin amazing.
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#38
Quote:No doubts by your standards, Paul 888, it's simply too much. I bet you wouldn't allow anyone more than 2,5 cm for this depression! Smile
You are correct, although I'm not a big fan of "wall" tests. All you have to do is look into the mirror an see, what's the last part of your body that sticks out, your buttocks, or your thoracic spine.

[Image: Clipboard11.jpg]
Look at young kids, and notice what's the last thing, that sticks out. IT'S THEIR BUTTOCKS.

And here people from remote areas, one fooball player from poor country
[Image: hqdefault.jpg]
[Image: XMx1k_C.jpg]
[Image: Aristide_Bance_Burkina_Faso_v_Ghana_2013_Africa.png]
[Image: Banc_Aristide_focus_de.jpg]
[Image: 995161_823824.jpg]

But adults in modern cuntries looks like that
[Image: r_Tvqv_Y.jpg]
You can clearly see, buttocks no longer stick out, and head is falling if front of the chest.
Quote:I'd like to hear your oppinion: if someone in their mid thirties keeps the head 2,5 cm ahead this 'normal' line (which is not so normal to your standards) can that posture be corrected to 'normal' and how long it would take?
Can that be corrected to what you think to be normal? If so how exactly?
Well, current believe is, that you cant fix your kyphosis, scoliosis, lordosis, shor leg, or what have you (especialy, when you are older), so doctors can only advice surgeries. But I have done it, and I really think most people can do it also. But it must be complex appraoch, not exercises.

First I was doing exercises for spine correction from YT advices or posture correction books, but these didnt work for me at all (Nothing changed, I still had the same kyphosis and forward head posture etc.). With time I learned, that I have take the same route that lead me to callapsed spine, BUT REVERSE IT. So I stoped straining my spine by learning good posture habits, and I worked with every part.

Quote:For anyone interested in proper posture, the gokhale method is amazing! Its simple and easy and there are no exercises you do
Gravity is your exercise, and it works whole day! How you callapsed your spine in the first place? It wasnt because you have done few bad exercises, but because you was straining your spine EVERYDAY, and you have to reverse that route. Esther Gokhale, Kathlen Porter, Dana Davis, all these 3 women studied people in remote areas, and they made the same conclusion, these people in remote areas have buttocks :). I will say, most posture "experts" will most likely teach you some wrong posture advices. For example they will teach you posterior pelvic tilt in order to correct overached lumbar spine, and it will make your condition even worse. But these 3 women are OK. They teachings are similar, but IMHO Esther Gokhale is the most accurate if I had to choose the most accurate one. But the thing is, even she made few mistakes in her work. You cant sit as he teach you if you really want to straighten up your spine, but you can sit that, if you have alrady correct spine curvatures. And her "glide walking"? This is not how people should walk IMHO (with bended and rotated knees, and with entire weight on your heals). Why I can say that ? Well first you should read Katy Bowman's articles, she is biomechanist, ans she knows like very few people, how you should walk. I agree with Katy Bowman's knoledge when it comes to knees and walking, because my eyes will always show me if I will relax my body correctly (even during walking). Also I can see and FEEL how fluid and fast my walk is compared to her "glide walking", there's no comparison. Even women tells me, that my walk is captivating to them :), and I think women always know (intuition or something?) when you doing it right. I really think, Esther made big mistake when it comes to walking. Maybe she looked too much at young kids, yes, kids have perfect spine curvatures, but they have no muscle tone, and they still growing, especialy their legs.

Here's how their legs looks like during first few years:
http://s6.postimg.org/n9pwc980h/child_gr...opment.jpg

Maybe poeple who have to transport huge weights on their heads have to walk her way (glide walking), but normal walking without weights looks different IMHO.
Quote: I also have the PDF of her book so if you are interested send me a pm and I will send it to you!
Esther ebook is cheap, no need for stealing
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#39
Paul, could you share some more info on walking properly? I think gokhale has it more right than how I used to walk, and I already have quite a butt! But I never engaged my gluteal muscle with the old way, and now with glide walking it is a good feeling using those muscles. Walking is also getting faster and I have little to no discomfort in my knees when I glide walk vs my old walk.

And I think her book is fantastic, as she is too, and I agree stealing is no good. But I also feel that she would probably give it away for free if she had the money to do that. I myself found the eBook for free, realized how important it was and bought a book. But not everyone wants to spend money especially on something you don't know works. I have a really hard time spending money because of how low my budget is. And thank you for your input on that!
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#40
(06-19-2015, 01:41 PM)egkopin Wrote: Paul, could you share some more info on walking properly? I think gokhale has it more right than how I used to walk, and I already have quite a butt! But I never engaged my gluteal muscle with the old way, and now with glide walking it is a good feeling using those muscles. Walking is also getting faster and I have little to no discomfort in my knees when I glide walk vs my old walk.

And I think her book is fantastic, as she is too, and I agree stealing is no good. But I also feel that she would probably give it away for free if she had the money to do that. I myself found the eBook for free, realized how important it was and bought a book. But not everyone wants to spend money especially on something you don't know works. I have a really hard time spending money because of how low my budget is. And thank you for your input on that!
I have read Katy Bowman's articles, she is biomechanist, and I agree with Katy Bowman's knowledge when it comes to knees and walking. Knees bend just in one direction, and when you rotate your leg (kneecap) too much to the outside (as young kids has, and how Esther teach), knee will not allow to straighten up your leg so easly (so you have to walk on bended knees). But Katy Bowman teach (and I agree with her), that you need to try landing on your heal first, and on ALREADY STRAIGHT LEG unlike what Esther teach.


If you would walk barefoot (and do it correctly), you should hear no sound of your footsteps, and your head should not jump during all phases of the movement (head should be very still). Average adult also land on straight leg, but there's a big difference, their buttocks are not propeling them forward correctly (because their spine is callapsed, and their hips are im mechanical disadvantage), so their motion is all about falling (in front of them). So in that scenario they will hurt their kneecap eventualy, and I can understand Esther why he teach walking on bended knees. But IMHO this is not how you should walk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js9jeGy_6NA
Here's walking on bended knees in slow motion

But it's also imortant to mention on what kind surface you are walking? You will walk differently on flat surface, and differently if you would want to climp on small hill for example (in that scenario, you will bend your knees.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDIeu_QL51U

But on flat surface?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPcubsprjlQ
Notice, as this Himba women walks during first few seconds, she is landing on straight leg, not bended, and her lower back (and buttocks) twist during movement. She dosnt walk that way because it's seductive, she walks that way, because it's relaxing.
[Image: phases_of_walking.jpg]
[Image: 19932_web.jpg]

I tried walking as Esther teach in her book (on externaly rotated and bended legs), and I feelt pain in my knees from doing that, and my vision didnt respond. Walking is not about falling in front of you (unfortunately most people walk like that), so you dont need to bent your legs during walking Smile. I learned from Katy bowman, that when you straighten up your leg (just before it strikes), hamstrings will relax for a second during that action, and indeed, in fact I can feel that nice relaxation feeling. But when I start walking on bended legs, it feels strange. I saw people walking on bended legs on YT videos, but these people were lifting huge weights on their heads, maybe that's why Esther learned that Glide Walking.

And BTW., I think it's not like you should walk using certain muscle, like buttocks, it's more like chain reaction, all muscles should work together, but of course if your buttocks will not engage at all it's a problem.
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#41
(06-19-2015, 12:22 PM)Paul888 Wrote:
Quote:No doubts by your standards, Paul 888, it's simply too much. I bet you wouldn't allow anyone more than 2,5 cm for this depression! Smile
You are correct, although I'm not a big fan of "wall" tests. All you have to do is look into the mirror an see, what's the last part of your body that sticks out, your buttocks, or your thoracic spine.

.... With time I learned, that I have take the same route that lead me to callapsed spine, BUT REVERSE IT. So I stoped straining my spine by learning good posture habits, and I worked with every part.

....You cant sit as he teach you if you really want to straighten up your spine, but you can sit that, if you have alrady correct spine curvatures.

1 Just be careful when you claim so freely that good posture means that your buttocks stick out. Jennifer Lopez doesn't have a very nicely shaped neck but her buttocks really stick out. Cool

http://media2.popsugar-assets.com/files/...rge_2x.jpg

I know what you wanted to say but I think you just need to polish out your statement until is perfect.

2 Sounds very logical that one with bad posture has to reverse the things what lead to that posture. Alas, I bet most people are not sure what made their posture to be not correct in the first place. But I'm almost entirely sure that negative process took the place before their adulthood.

3 Now you say they should practice correct posture habits. That also sounds true. But which are they? Can you tell us more about them?

4 Am I right if I guess that when you sit in front on the computer you don't cry cos you don't have a very expensive ergonomic chair as any chair of an appropriate height of its seat is good for you? If you have a correct spine and strong back muscles you probably feel comfortable even when sitting on the bench unless the bench is too low (typical case) or too high.
OK - the bench is not very soft piece of furniture but that's the other thing.

Also, it's interesting to realize that so many chairs don't have armrests. Do you think it's wrong?
Do you think we need armrests when sitting?
Our elbows are usually around 25 cm above the seat surface and also too distant from our thighs to be leaned against. If not supported our arms are pulling down our shoulders and that's the problem of its own.
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#42
Quote:http://media2.popsugar-assets.com/files/...rge_2x.jpg
It's better to look for side view photo.

[Image: image.png]
Even this photo is not perfect side view angle, but her thoracic spine definitely sticks out too far behind, she has big C curve. But the thing is, she wears heals in every photo you can find, so it's hard to see her real posture.

But yes, your buttocks can stick out the last, and you can still have bad posture. But generally "butt" advice is very good advice, because most people lean backwards, and their thoracic spine sticks out the last, not their butt. Just look at photos below.
[Image: Clipboard01.png]
[Image: r_Tvqv_Y.jpg]
If your butt already stick out the last, it's much easier to correct scapula, and head placement, and if you do that, thoracic spine will no longer fall behind of your hips.

Quote:Also, it's interesting to realize that so many chairs don't have armrests.
With correct colar bone placement, scapulas are back and down, and serratus anterior muscle will work. This muscle will keep your arms connected to the back of your chest, so your arms can rest, you will never need armrest.

Sitting is like an art, right now I can sit on every char, it can be too high, it can be too low, doesnt matter, because I can still sit on it even straight 8 hours without pain and discomfort. In comparison, before I was using chair with backrest, and I had lower back pain after 2 hours of sitting. So I have found out, that our bodies are made even for sitting, but if you sat for your entire life with backrest supports, not only you have no muscles that will support you, but also your spine will be so misaligned, that your muscles will have to work much more, and you will tire.

Quote:3 Now you say they should practice correct posture habits. That also sounds true. But which are they? Can you tell us more about them?
Too much informations. The thing is, I tried every posture advice thats out there (the same with eye exercises), and I learned good habits (In order to fix my spine) on my mistakes. I can assure you, you have to fix your whole body, every part, it's never so simple like you only have "C" curve in your neck, you whole body will be misaligned because of that C curve in your neck. You can read Egoscue book if you want, and you will realize how many parts (bones) of your body can be misalligned, rotated, etc. I have collected my quick notes since the beginning (knowledge about every part of our body), and it's 400 pages word document already. If I would want to explain you every detail (what I learned), I will have to wrote 1000 pages post, and I'm not joking, this is how much informations you should need to know, in order to reverse your spine curvatures and heal your spine. Right now I have no time for that, and in fact I dont even know if something like text document can can teach everything. It's hard to write about movement for example, you have to see it, and experience the difference with correct and bad movement.

But I hope, my posts will steer you guys into the right direction. I bet you were all surprised seeing correct neck xray, and now you should know why your neck muscles (and so eye muscles) are strained all the time. And it's only side view xray, there are other problems with neck, that are impossible to see on that xray picture. So fixing your body it's a long route if you want to relax your neck muscles successfully, but it's worth it, because when your neck muscles are relaxed, your eye muscle can relax very easly. And when you start fluctuation mechanism you can wear transition glasses, and this glasses will not interfere with healing process (NOTHING will tire your eyes with relaxed neck, that's my experience). For example, you will put glasses, that are one dioptre weaker, and your eyes will accomodate to that lower prescription, but you should still see fluctuation in this glasses, that's the key (but of course smaller fluctuation compared to walking without glasses at all). In comparison, strained neck will result in strained eye muscles all the time, and if you put even transition ones, you will never see fluctuations in this glasses, and what's more, even this transition (weaker glasses) will tire your eye muscles. But with relaxed neck, nothing can tire eye muscles, that's my experience, so people with high dioptre can restore their vision without need for turing their lifes into a big misery, as I had to do before learning all of this. What life I had without good vision, and going without glasses with extreme high dioptre? It was tragedy, because I couldnt do even simplest things.

OK, I have spend enough time trying to help you guys. In near future I will try to post only my progress. Some years ago I thought it would be a miracle, but thanks to my mistakes I have learned a lot about life, and health. I have fixed my spine already, I have no lower back pain, it's much easier to walk, sit, stand, and I'm 3cm taller on top of that Smile. Before I was straining my eyes no matter what vision habits I was doing, even palming didnt helped me, and I couldnt relax my eyes correctly (perids of long lasting vision improved).
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#43
But Paul 888,

1 What do you think why those primitive tribal people have the spine like that and not like modern, civilized people? What is the thing that contribute the most to this obvious difference? There must be something.

I think our modern human has the back as they have because: a) we sit too much and b) that's an unfortunate adaptation (or lack of it) to hard surfaces we walk on. The first thing doesn't need much of explanation: just look how much we sit in our schools (when our bodies crave for movement and physical activities), then in front of TV and computers, then at our works, in our cars...in aggregate too much.

As for the surfaces we walk on - it's only in last two centuries the humans thread over very hard surfaces almost constantly: all our streets are paved with stones and asphalt, there's concrete everywhere as well. We used to walk through the grass and dust once - now our pathways are clean and - hard. It compromises a lot our way of walking, our stature and it puts to the test the durability of our joints.Grass and sand may not be clean but they provide our walk with shock absorption much better than the cement. Just look how many products are on the market as a solution for troubles and negative consequences: insoles, special trainers and read all the stories of people who suffer from foot and knee problems...

2 Did you manage to correct your own spine to the shape you're talking about all the time? Do you finally look when standing and sitting like people you think have the best posture?

3 I see there's a lot to be read about what to do in order to correct many minor misalignments in our body. But do you think you gathered enough knowledge to be some kind of instructor to those who want to do the same thing you did?

4 I'm not sure I can agree with sitting for hours. Our body likes movement and one reason for it is that movement relaxes our body. There's another thing connected to that: if you want to stretch one muscle you'll inevitably perform the action which contracts its opponent. But now if you alternate this contraction-extension often enough you'll have both muscles relaxed. This impuls is built in us: we unconsciously change the position during sleep because - it's beneficial to our rest. We don't just fall in the bed and stay for 8 hours in the same position.
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#44
Aureus, sorry for delay, but it's very time consuming answering your posts, I just cant answer quickly "yes or no" for example.

1@ They just dont sit that much, so they dont tuck their pelvis so often. If you tuck your pelvis for 8-10h a day as we do (sitting on chair with backrest support), your thoracic spine has to callapse into big C shape because of the gravity pull, and head must go forward.

But if you sit correctly (without any backrest support), you can sit almost without time limit (you will not tire your body), and you can also fix your body if your spine is already in bad shape. With perfect posture your chest is always relaxed and it can expand fully, with every breath this chest expansion will stretch and lift your spine (and nourish the spinal discs). And not to meniton, sitting without backrest is different compared to normal sitting, it's not so static, you can rotate, you can move to the sides, and even do some shoulder rolls easly.

These people below sat like that for hours, and I bet they had no lower back pain or other spine problems. These people sat without backrest and they learned optimal posture for sitting (or it's better to say, they never forgot how they should sit in the first place, because kids will sit the same)
[Image: a11.jpg]
[Image: Clipboard01.jpg]
[Image: s222.jpg]

2@ yes, and I have taken pictures before and after my change. Will see, maybe I will write book someday where I will explain with this pictures what happened with my body at each stage.

3@ I have gathered so much knowledge, that right I could be the only person in entire world, who knows how to reverse spine curvatures, and do it the fastest way possible. Few years ago I tried to learn something from various "posture experts", but no one helped me with my spine problems. In the end I have learned from my mistakes, and thanks to vision fluctuations I was able to see what advice worked (or not). I think I have practical knowledge like no one before, I wend from S shaped spine into J myself, and I know what it takes in order to get there. IMHO Posture experts today are like ophthalmologists, they have huge knowledge, but that knowledge is not practical, so in the end, these people cant help anyone, even themselves. Once I saw instructor teaching scoliosis exercises, and SHE HERSELF STILL HAD SCOLIOSIS. People like that are teaching something that never worked for them, but for some reason they belive, it will work for you Smile

Quote: I'm not sure I can agree with sitting for hours. Our body likes movement and one reason for it is that movement relaxes our body. There's another thing connected to that: if you want to stretch one muscle you'll inevitably perform the action which contracts its opponent. B.
Some time ago I would also not belive that. But my experience is, sitting was the best spine correction exercise that's out there. If you walk for example, and if you have scoliosis, it will be hard to fix your pelvis (it's foundation for the spine), because one leg will be shorter. You have to fix your pelvis on leveled surface first (and whole upper body structure), and only then your upper body can fix your legs during walking.

And yes, you cant stretch just one muscle, not only you will influence it's antagonist, but you will influence whole body (that's because each muscle is conected with fascia, it's like "spider web" that's holds up your whole body). It's impossible to target just one muscle without messing with other muscles because of fascia, and that's why all posture exercises are doomed to fail. The same with eyesight, fascia sends muscle strains from the top to the bottom of your body, and people who have bad eyesight have muscle problems all over their body. Only movement in the perfect center of the gravity can fix such imbalance (and that require perfect posture).

AND BTW- It's hard to sit for the entire time, you have to eat something etc. and you also have to walk somehow to your work or shop etc. Also I'm not suggesting that you should not walk (in fact after one hour of sitting for example it's good to walk or just stand for a while), BUT sitting is not so big problem as people belive.
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#45
To stay on the same line:

Having watched some YouTube videos on some tribal people in Africa, I realized how flexible those women are in their lower back and their pelvic region.

They sit and work in group. They talk or sing. They sit on the ground, crossed legged or with one leg sideways. But from time to time one needs to fetch something (a bowl for example) which is more than a metre before themselves. They don't stand and go to pick it up. Still while sitting, they lean forward, stretch their arm and fetch it. Yoga and fitness instructors would be very pleased to see it. Those women do this kind of movements on a daily basis.
However most of us who are not very flexible find this type of moving hard.

I also read that some Turkish peasants are able to squat for hours. They don't squat on the soles and toes like most of us do. This kind of squatting is pretty tiresome. Instead they widen their legs apart enough so that they can support their body with whole feet (clever, clever), find a balance and - chat for hours in that position. But for this you need to have knees in good condition.
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