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List of other methods - help!
#1
I want to write something clarifying what the Bates method is and isn't. I'll go over all the alternative approaches to vision improvement and why they don't address the real problems. I need help compiling the list.
  • exercising the eye muscles with repeated movements
  • plus lenses for myopia
  • print pushing, ie: reading at the edge of blur
  • eye stretches
  • going without glasses (by itself)
  • laser surgery and ortho-k

And for clarification I'll also briefly go over examples of several things that might be helpful for overall health but don't interfere with vision, like nutrition, meditation, exercise, trigger point therapy, and of course there are whole huge alternative health systems like TCM, naturopathy, homeopathy, etc, that I don't really want to get into for the purposes of this.

What else is out there?
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#2
(08-27-2014, 10:15 AM)David Wrote: I want to write something clarifying what the Bates method is and isn't. I'll go over all the alternative approaches to vision improvement and why they don't address the real problems. I need help compiling the list.
  • exercising the eye muscles with repeated movements
  • plus lenses for myopia
  • print pushing, ie: reading at the edge of blur
  • eye stretches
  • going without glasses (by itself)
  • laser surgery and ortho-k

And for clarification I'll also briefly go over examples of several things that might be helpful for overall health but don't interfere with vision, like nutrition, meditation, exercise, trigger point therapy, and of course there are whole huge alternative health systems like TCM, naturopathy, homeopathy, etc, that I don't really want to get into for the purposes of this.

What else is out there?

- Pinholes
- Magic Eye
- Those lenses that flatten the eyeball you have to wear every night
- EFT of course -- in Carol Look's "Eyesight Experiment" the emotion people got the most eyesight improvement from tapping on was anger, intestingly enough. For me it's much more effective to tap on a specific incident than on "this anger struck in my eyes".
- Body re-alignment modalities ike Alexander Technique or Feldenkrais or Rolfing

If I think of any others I'll add to this.
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#3
(08-27-2014, 10:15 AM)David Wrote: I want to write something clarifying what the Bates method is and isn't. I'll go over all the alternative approaches to vision improvement and why they don't address the real problems. I need help compiling the list.
  • exercising the eye muscles with repeated movements
  • plus lenses for myopia
  • print pushing, ie: reading at the edge of blur
  • eye stretches
  • going without glasses (by itself)
  • laser surgery and ortho-k

And for clarification I'll also briefly go over examples of several things that might be helpful for overall health but don't interfere with vision, like nutrition, meditation, exercise, trigger point therapy, and of course there are whole huge alternative health systems like TCM, naturopathy, homeopathy, etc, that I don't really want to get into for the purposes of this.

What else is out there?

- 3 Cups
- Accommotrac (biofeedback machine)
- CRB (compress - release - blink, or anything promoted by David DeAngeles for that matter)
-Light boards
- ciliary myopia
-Axial myopia
- 'active focus'
- nearpoint 'load' or near point 'stress' or anything to the effect using the eyes at near is bad in and of itself. When used incorrectly at near, (or any distance ) it can cause strain.
- Bates' isn't just about using the eye chart for 1 hr. a day.
- Bates isn't just about passive relaxation techniques.
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#4
(08-27-2014, 11:47 AM)Nancy Wrote:
(08-27-2014, 10:15 AM)David Wrote: I want to write something clarifying what the Bates method is and isn't. I'll go over all the alternative approaches to vision improvement and why they don't address the real problems. I need help compiling the list.
  • exercising the eye muscles with repeated movements
  • plus lenses for myopia
  • print pushing, ie: reading at the edge of blur
  • eye stretches
  • going without glasses (by itself)
  • laser surgery and ortho-k

And for clarification I'll also briefly go over examples of several things that might be helpful for overall health but don't interfere with vision, like nutrition, meditation, exercise, trigger point therapy, and of course there are whole huge alternative health systems like TCM, naturopathy, homeopathy, etc, that I don't really want to get into for the purposes of this.

What else is out there?

- Pinholes
- Magic Eye
- Those lenses that flatten the eyeball you have to wear every night
- EFT of course -- in Carol Look's "Eyesight Experiment" the emotion people got the most eyesight improvement from tapping on was anger, intestingly enough. For me it's much more effective to tap on a specific incident than on "this anger struck in my eyes".
- Body re-alignment modalities ike Alexander Technique or Feldenkrais or Rolfing

If I think of any others I'll add to this.

Extra 3-cups info;
Its also called Magic eye pictures. Can cause people double vision, strabismus; http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Eye-Beyond-3...magic+eyes

Also called; Autostereogram. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autostereogram

Some vision teachers warn about this. Martin Sussamn and Ray Gotell... a eye doctor 'bye bye presbyopia chart' warn against it if there is even a slight uneven convergence, divergence or other problem. But they have it in their books.

A guy on here and myself developed double vision and a wandering eye from the 3-cups. Someone else too. My neck injury (caused by a dishonest chiropractor) caused the wandering eye but the 3-cups stuff increased it. Before the neck injury the 3-cups and the same type pictures in Janet Goodrich's book gave me double vision 2 diff times for 2 days until I stopped using it. Thomas Quackenbush warns about it in his book Relearning to See.

Bates method corrected the eye problem along with correction of the neck injury. The other man (also had neck problem) used the Bates method and also went to a doc to fix his neck and a Behavioral Optometrist; The eye doctor had him use a autostereogram for a while supervised by the doctor. A specific way to correct his individual condition. I prefer the Bates method but will tell people to ask their Optometrist for the autostreogram if they need it.
I met a few mothers that say the autostreogram corrected their children's strabismus but its only for that and one size does not fit all and its not to be used forever. The spacing or the pictures, distance, where to look, amount of time to do it, other conditions all have an effect and must be set for specific conditions.. Only a doctor very experienced in this and brain, brain hemisphere... function with the eyes, eye muscles and other visual system functions should apply it.

I really like Johnathon Barnes book except for his autosterogram fusion exercise. My vertigo came back after seeing and holding the 2 merged illusions of 4 pens one night. 3 times problems from this stuff; no more!

That's all I can think of. Maybe colored eyeglass lenses used for color light therapy. That's not the way true Bates teachers apply it.

Chiropractic shouldn't be carelessly advised. You all know my stand on that. Many videos on YouTube showing people with stroke from chiropractic, some developed eye-vision problems, hearing problems. Eyesight can be cured with fiddling with the neck. I really believe chiro should be only done by a M.D. who is not dependent on making money by endless chiropractic sales. Its risky.

Negative effects of pinhole glasses should be addressed. Teachers must tell the full truth before advising.

Clark
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#5
(08-28-2014, 10:34 AM)arocarty Wrote:
(08-27-2014, 10:15 AM)David Wrote: I want to write something clarifying what the Bates method is and isn't. I'll go over all the alternative approaches to vision improvement and why they don't address the real problems. I need help compiling the list.
  • exercising the eye muscles with repeated movements
  • plus lenses for myopia
  • print pushing, ie: reading at the edge of blur
  • eye stretches
  • going without glasses (by itself)
  • laser surgery and ortho-k

And for clarification I'll also briefly go over examples of several things that might be helpful for overall health but don't interfere with vision, like nutrition, meditation, exercise, trigger point therapy, and of course there are whole huge alternative health systems like TCM, naturopathy, homeopathy, etc, that I don't really want to get into for the purposes of this.

What else is out there?

- 3 Cups
- Accommotrac (biofeedback machine)
- CRB (compress - release - blink, or anything promoted by David DeAngeles for that matter)
-Light boards
- ciliary myopia
-Axial myopia
- 'active focus'
- nearpoint 'load' or near point 'stress' or anything to the effect using the eyes at near is bad in and of itself. When used incorrectly at near, (or any distance ) it can cause strain.
- Bates' isn't just about using the eye chart for 1 hr. a day.
- Bates isn't just about passive relaxation techniques.

Agree. Thank you.

And; avoid the minus lens anti corrective method (other version of that awful plus lens method) to treat farsight, presbyopia.

Of course; no Lasik. Strange as it seems people need to read the side effects to be convinced it can and has caused blindness, many other problems.
Link to YouTube videos and the FDA warnings.

Cataract surgery; that artificial replacement lens they put in the eye; let people know if they allow the doctor to place a myopia, presbyopia or other 'prescription' in the artificial lens; it's like wearing eyeglasses;

If the vision becomes more impaired 'as the prescription will cause this'; blur will occur; like trying to look through a too weak eyeglass lens.
Bates Method might bring it back to the state vision was in at the time of the operation but its a delicate balance.

If the vision totally improves with use of the Bates method; the vision will blur; like looking through a too strong implanted prescription.
Only another operation can change the implant prescript.

If implant is a must; choose this..... natural as possible...; I wrote a new paper on this. If David wants it, let me know.
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#6
David, about steroscopic vision, Bates had students practice the eye chart with each eye separately and also with both eyes together. I've met a few people who thought it was a "solution" to have one eye corrected for far and one for near, like wearing a single contact lens so they could see distance with that eye -- they were hardly ever using both eyes at the same time. In a workshop with Peter Grunwald we had a few people like this, and they had problems seeing at the middle distance, when they had to switch from using one eye to using the other.

The whole topic of true depth to me is a big part of natural vision, not just seeing something flat clearer. People don't focus on this as something important because they don't have it if they wear glasses, and they don't know what they're missing.
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#7
Strictly speaking work on peripheral vision the way Meir Schneider promotes it is not the Bates but I find this doesn't contradict the Bates as the purpose is to relax the eyes and more precisely - the central vision.

By walking at night in the area where there's no artificial light for an adequate amount of time one gets their rod cells awake and function thus decreasing the stress which is always on our central vision. The other way is simply by creating some side movement like waving the hands aside while looking in a light manner at something (even the patch on the bridge of the nose). Some people think this opposes central fixation promoted by Dr Bates but it doesn't for the goal is not to focus at anything with your peripheral vision - the only demand is to BE AWARE OF THE PERIPHERY. Or we can put it this way: we focus with a small part of our macula, but we are aware of everything that is happening around. We need slight focus not too rigid and the work of our periphery is crucial for help us obtain it. And by the way, we don't have peripheral vision by chance.

You need to focus at the smallest point you can see and at the same time be aware of the largest area your visual aparatus is able to provide. And all that with no effort.
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#8
Chines eye massage is not Bates.

One possible boost tip: Do chinese eye massage in the morning, and eyes will become/stay clearer through out the day.
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#9
Aureus, I too think paying some attention to peripheral vision is necessary and helpful even though Bates didn't really write about it. That's actually a great example of something that is a useful adjunct to the Bates method, if it's done right of course.

If someone is over-emphasizing central vision, even if he reminds himself to relax he might have a hard time "letting go" of his eyes because he still has the idea that he needs to constantly grab the handlebars and point his eyes toward what he wants to see, to avoid diffusing his attention. Paying attention to details is much better done from a mental starting point, so the eyes follow the attention, instead of the other way around that puts the cart before the horse.

So one way of thinking about it is: Physically you let your eyes lay back, relax, blink, see everything, and pay no special attention to central vision. Mentally you think about details constantly. When you combine the two your eyes will be pulled towards finding details, and the better you do it, the less you can feel your eye movements, until you're not sure at all whether your eyes are moving. It's very deceptive, because eye movements on one hand sound like a good thing, but the more you can feel them the worse you're doing.

Jacob Liberman taught about that too, "Open Focus", but I don't remember much beyond the name. It might be in one of his books. I got rid of all my books, but now I kinda feel like I should go back and re-read some of them.
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#10
(09-06-2014, 10:09 PM)David Wrote: Aureus, I too think paying some attention to peripheral vision is necessary and helpful even though Bates didn't really write about it. That's actually a great example of something that is a useful adjunct to the Bates method, if it's done right of course.

If someone is over-emphasizing central vision, even if he reminds himself to relax he might have a hard time "letting go" of his eyes because he still has the idea that he needs to constantly grab the handlebars and point his eyes toward what he wants to see, to avoid diffusing his attention. Paying attention to details is much better done from a mental starting point, so the eyes follow the attention, instead of the other way around that puts the cart before the horse.

So one way of thinking about it is: Physically you let your eyes lay back, relax, blink, see everything, and pay no special attention to central vision. Mentally you think about details constantly. When you combine the two your eyes will be pulled towards finding details, and the better you do it, the less you can feel your eye movements, until you're not sure at all whether your eyes are moving. It's very deceptive, because eye movements on one hand sound like a good thing, but the more you can feel them the worse you're doing.

Jacob Liberman taught about that too, "Open Focus", but I don't remember much beyond the name. It might be in one of his books. I got rid of all my books, but now I kinda feel like I should go back and re-read some of them.

It always seemed to me to be quite implicit that peripheral vision was an integral part of the Bates techniques..... see on part best... all other parts worse.... From his magazines:

"When the eye sees best where it is looking it is called Central Fixation. Of course when one sees one point best it must see all other parts worse,"

"In central fixation, one sees best the point regarded while all other points are seen less clearly."

When discussing shifting: " Coincident with this movement, you can observe that you see best the point regarded and all other points less clearly or less distinctly."

"Concentration is an effort to see where you are looking and not to see at all where you are not looking. This is impossible without a strain. An effort to concentrate always fails to improve the vision. All persons with imperfect sight try to concentrate. When the vision improves, the effort to concentrate becomes less. Persons with normal sight never try to concentrate."

An even more direct statement about the periphery: "It is physiologically impossible to see one thing at a time and exclude everything else from sight, because nature has given us a visual field of considerable range..... Although the physiological reasons for it are not as plain, the mind is subject to the same law as the eye. It cannot think of one thing to the exclusion of all other things. Nor can it think continuously of an unchanging object without continuous shifting of the attention. The attempt to do these things is accompanied by a strain which is reflected in the eyes and always produces abnormal conditions there."

This theme is carried throughout all his works. Anything that helps raise ones awareness of the periphery doesn't seem like it would oppose Bates, as long as one isn't making some sort of effort to see it better. In fact it's more of a strain to try to exclude it, as that seems to go against the nature of the eye.
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#11
Our eyes should be in constant movement and for this Dr Bates promoted the swing exercise.. (One of the reasons is that he realized the mistake some people with lower vision make and that is - they try to imagine the letters stationary.) The same can be said for unrestlessness and accumulared strain both in the eys in mind - palming was a major exercise introduced to reduce it and eventually eliminate it.

On the other hand, even though he was well aware of the importance of peripheral vision, as far as I know, he didn't suggest any particular exercise for it. That's where Meir Schneider upgraded the story and it seems to me with a good reason cos so many people tend to forget their periphery and after some time it brings the negative consequences. A typical example is a person at the computer - very often and especially if he or she has to do something important for them the rest of the room stop to exist.

The same mistake is often made by a person who exercises his or her vision. In order to see better centraly sometimes unconscieously and sometimes with intention they turn off the periphery especially when they want to 'concentrate'. When they are said it's a wrong way of doing the things and they don't help their central vision by turning off their peripheral vision they say: "OK, what should I do?" - "You need to pay attention to your periphery." - "Fine, but how?"

Some exercises are the answer for that question. Periphery can be exercised like every thing else.
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#12
(09-07-2014, 08:02 AM)Aureus Wrote: Our eyes should be in constant movement and for this Dr Bates promoted the swing exercise.. (One of the reasons is that he realized the mistake some people with lower vision make and that is - they try to imagine the letters stationary.) The same can be said for unrestlessness and accumulared strain both in the eys in mind - palming was a major exercise introduced to reduce it and eventually eliminate it.

On the other hand, even though he was well aware of the importance of peripheral vision, as far as I know, he didn't suggest any particular exercise for it. That's where Meir Schneider upgraded the story and it seems to me with a good reason cos so many people tend to forget their periphery and after some time it brings the negative consequences. A typical example is a person at the computer - very often and especially if he or she has to do something important for them the rest of the room stop to exist.

The same mistake is often made by a person who exercises his or her vision. In order to see better centraly sometimes unconscieously and sometimes with intention they turn off the periphery especially when they want to 'concentrate'. When they are said it's a wrong way of doing the things and they don't help their central vision by turning off their peripheral vision they say: "OK, what should I do?" - "You need to pay attention to your periphery." - "Fine, but how?"

Some exercises are the answer for that question. Periphery can be exercised like every thing else.


I think Bates actually mentioned the periphery when palming (he said it should be black). So in other words he treated periphery vision with this mental exercise.

However these mentioned ideas are described in the book "The open-focus brain" by the author Les Fehmi.
But it is not the first discovery.
The old Hawaii-people new it very well and they called it "Hakalau".
It is also well known in martial arts.
The hard focus makes you able to concentrate as you said,
and it can be used for instance when talking in presentations (i.e. eye contact).
The peripheral focus makes you learn better,
but you could on the other hand turn unconcentrated (might stumble over the words for instance,
while anyway getting the whole picture in some mystical holistic way).
If some of you guys should try it out then be aware of these positive/negative aspects and learn to switch the attention to use it.
I think Les Fehmi did his discovery in some moment when he eventually was about to give up everything.
When he had given up he discovered (measured) the dramatic relaxation it caused to the brain,
and he developed the "open-focus" from there.
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#13
After reading another new thread, I'm convinced that the #1 idea that sends people astray is the idea that close work causes myopia. I'll concentrate on that.
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#14
(09-09-2014, 01:05 AM)David Wrote: After reading another new thread, I'm convinced that the #1 idea that sends people astray is the idea that close work causes myopia. I'll concentrate on that.

Perfect!

Bates taught that reading the fine and microscopic print cures blur. It cured my experience with presbyopia age 40. Now 57 and still clear. I practice when need to keep that very close vision like a kid has; looking at a marble close to the eye.

Bates really made a discovery here. I wonder if it just dawned on him as he observed central-fixation and saccades or also something else he was working on. When did he first discover this and start advising patients to read the fine print and monitor the result?
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#15
(09-09-2014, 01:05 AM)David Wrote: After reading another new thread, I'm convinced that the #1 idea that sends people astray is the idea that close work causes myopia.

Not close work itself but the way we do it might cause myopia.

So many people read for hours without even a little break. And when you feel your eyes are tired - it's already late. Close work should be combined with frequent looking at the things in mid and far distance.

Fine print is great for curing blur at close distance (central fixation, looking at small details etc) yet whatever you read - and this means even the small print - without enough breaks you risk to spoil your far-distance vision. Your mind might write off your far vision as you - don't use it. That's the law - we loose the things we don't use enough. The key is in the balance. The eyes should be used in all the ways that are given to us, and not in some ways...

The catch is in building good habits. The dispays glue our eyes to themselves, and at first we have to make a conscieous effort - to make frequent breaks, say every twenty or thirty minutes when we stand up, do some light stretches, look through the windows for a couple of minutes and then get back to work. Now if you have an eight-hour shift, calculate how many times you need this kind of short breaks. A lot, right? In real environtment it can raise some suspicions. Your boss might think you're a lazy bug that doesn't feel like working really. Dodgy

Then you go home and after a couple of hours you remember you have to send some e-mails. And once when you're online, why not to read some news or anything that pleases you? You deserve some relaxation after such day. And then you get glued to the screen again. You read articles one after another, you don't stop, you click and click and click, you barely breath. When called by somebody you answer but you don't let your eyes off the screen for a moment. This is a relaxation for your mind, who cares about the eyes now?

Damn! I wrote whole this post without a single break, Confused
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