I've assumed I always had myopia because things in the distance are blurred, and that's what my eye doctor told me, but I noticed today that they're actually in double.. A "ghost" image appears above the object im looking at and put enough objects there they blur each other, especially text.
However I find that when I pull the sides of my eyes into the shape of eyes like Chinese/japaneese people have, the double vision effect goes away. Individual blades of grass became perfectly clear, I can read the eyechart 20/20. I compared it to wearing my glasses and my vision like this is even better. So I don't actually have myopia, but some weird double vision thing? I noticed that even text close up is ghosted as badly as in the distance. So it can't be short sight.
Is this even possible to be fixed with Bates? Or with conventional medicine? Does anyone know what this is and if its common?
It's called squinting. Don't do it.
The effect comes from your eye lashes filtering out the peripheral light. This reduces distortion and interference with direct light and causes everything to appear a bit clearer, and dimmer. It's an illusion, it does not correct the refractive error. It also causes strain and if you continue doing it, you'll reach a point where your eyesight becomes too myopic and astigmatic to be helped even by squinting.
As Dave said, you most likely have myopia, and double vision is attributed to astigmatism. From the sounds of it the astigmatism is very slight.
And yes, the Bates method has been known to correct both. If you'd like to know more about why you shouldn't squint and how you can make your eye sight clear again, read his book that's available for free on this website (there is a whole chapter describing to squinting, as well as its cause, effect, and treatment).
Pressure on the eye when you pull the corner like you describe causes the same effect too, for whatever reason, and it too is abusing the eyes. I think anyone with myopia can do it. Rest assured that's what you have.
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
Pulling on my eye brings my sight into perfect 20/20 vision, (squinting is useless) I know because I checked the image vs my glasses and its exactly the same. It can't be myopia because the ghosting is the same close up as far away.
Already read Bates book about 3 times but I don't get what he wants you to do apart from palming/sunning.
Ghosting isn't caused by myopia.
You should check your eyesight while normally looking at the eyechart, no squinting, no pulling, don't kid yourself. Just relax your eyes and read the chart, that will tell you if you are myopic.
If you are, you shouldn't feel ashamed.
The whole point of the Bates' book is to tell you that you shouldn't have to do anything to have perfect eyesight, just relax. Currently, you have to squint, pull, or whatever you are doing, to have good eyesight, and he made it perfectly clear that effort like this causes strain.
If you have a hard time understanding Bates' book, find a Bates teacher, or read someone else's book - there are tons of them. The whole point of those books is that they put what Bates said in common terms and apply it. You can try Tom Q's book "relearning to see", see if it works.
If you feel that what you are doing now is good for your eyes, you can wait and see what effect it has. Though it may cost you if you are wrong But the whole point is that Dr. Bates did those experiments already so you wouldn't have to, and the results are right there in his book.
BTW: what prescription did the optometrist give you?
Tyler, I also see double images sometimes. It usually happens when I'm a little more stressed than usual, but it always goes away. I always thought it was a little astigmatism on top of the myopia I already had. This means your recti muscles are tightening (as well as your obliques). Your eye doc probably isn't wrong about saying you have myopia. To me it looks like you are also bringing astigmatism on yourself.
I think that pulling on the corners of your eyes like that, as well as stressing over the fact that you're seeing double, may be contributing to the double images. I can relate 100% with the "pulling the sides of my eyes into the shape of eyes like Chinese/japaneese people have." I have an average of 3.6 diopters of myopia, and when I do that my vision is completely "corrected." I would probably be able to read the 20 line at 20 feet on the Snellen test card while doing that "Japanese squint." I never got anything out of normal squinting either.
"Ghosting," astigmatism, and myopia are all corrected with Bates - if you allow the relaxation to come!
Paul Wrote:Ghosting isn't caused by myopia.
You should check your eyesight while normally looking at the eyechart, no squinting, no pulling, don't kid yourself. Just relax your eyes and read the chart, that will tell you if you are myopic.
If you are, you shouldn't feel ashamed.
When I first look at the chart I can only read the first five lines, but I concentrate and work out whats part of the astigmatism illusion and what isn't I can read the whole eye chart. It just takes more time.
This is why its hard or impossible to measure any success.
Quote:The whole point of the Bates' book is to tell you that you shouldn't have to do anything to have perfect eyesight, just relax. Currently, you have to squint, pull, or whatever you are doing, to have good eyesight, and he made it perfectly clear that effort like this causes strain.
If you have a hard time understanding Bates' book, find a Bates teacher, or read someone else's book - there are tons of them. The whole point of those books is that they put what Bates said in common terms and apply it. You can try Tom Q's book "relearning to see", see if it works.
Already read relearning to see, that also made no sense. I saw a bates teacher, but I went away with the feeling I'd been conned. All she taught me was palming and sunning, gave me a sheet of chinese eye exercises and some other irrelavent stuff.
Quote:BTW: what prescription did the optometrist give you?
I'm assuming that's -1.0 (minus lens)?
You're about 20/60. You shouldn't have to struggle to see letters on the eyechart. All myopes can read most the chart if they struggle. A person with normal sight can just glance at the chart and read off the bottom letters.
You should have asked the teacher to answer questions outlined here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.iblindness.org/teacherassns.html">http://www.iblindness.org/teacherassns.html</a><!-- m -->
as well as lots of other questions to ensure she has the background and qualifications.
If you got nothing from "Relearning to see" and "Better eyesight without glasses", I don't see much hope for you.
In order to get the best results you have to approach the matter seriously and put your attention into it. Resourcefulness, focus, confidence and patience are the four things you need to succeed in this method. You seem to lack all four. I would come back to the Bates method in the future, when you feel that you have reached any of those qualities.
I just don't understand what you want from us: You say you read two books and haven't got a thing from them. You ask us what your refractive error may be, and you don't believe us and try to convince us otherwise. The point is that we don't care what your refractive error is, you are the only person who needs to care about that. You asked for our opinion and we gave it. If you have any questions about any of the methods we could most certainly help you.
I didn't mean to sound cruel, but I feel that's the harsh reality.
Paul Wrote:I'm assuming that's -1.0 (minus lens)?
You're about 20/60. You shouldn't have to struggle to see letters on the eyechart. All myopes can read most the chart if they struggle. A person with normal sight can just glance at the chart and read off the bottom letters.
You should have asked the teacher to answer questions outlined here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.iblindness.org/teacherassns.html">http://www.iblindness.org/teacherassns.html</a><!-- m -->
as well as lots of other questions to ensure she has the background and qualifications.
If you got nothing from "Relearning to see" and "Better eyesight without glasses", I don't see much hope for you.
In order to get the best results you have to approach the matter seriously and put your attention into it. Resourcefulness, focus, confidence and patience are the four things you need to succeed in this method. You seem to lack all four. I would come back to the Bates method in the future, when you feel that you have reached any of those qualities.
I just don't understand what you want from us: You say you read two books and haven't got a thing from them. You ask us what your refractive error may be, and you don't believe us and try to convince us otherwise. The point is that we don't care what your refractive error is, you are the only person who needs to care about that. You asked for our opinion and we gave it. If you have any questions about any of the methods we could most certainly help you.
I didn't mean to sound cruel, but I feel that's the harsh reality.
None of the books give you a routine or actually tell you what central fixation or swinging or w/e is. Don't tell me I don't have patience because i've spent months reading about this. The only thing easily outlined is palming and sunning, nothing else is actually explained. Seeing where you're looking at best? Whats up with that? How are you supposed to do that? Seeing the top of the C better? Idk
I checked and the double vision is definitely just as bad close up. I have two mouse cursors now, it seems like its getting worse, or im becoming aware of it. Seriously, someone tell me how to fix this. Please.
If you really see two distinct cursors then you might be strabismic. It's probably just astigmatism though. Why are you asking us how to fix your problem? Our advice would be no better than reading Bates' book for the fourth time.
PS - Have you read Bates' Better Eyesight Magazine? If you don't understand his book then I strongly suggest reading it, because Bates and his wife gives defined routines and also seems to explain some things better. Here it is: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.central-fixation.com/bettereyesight.htm">http://www.central-fixation.com/bettereyesight.htm</a><!-- m -->
TylerDurden Wrote:I checked and the double vision is definitely just as bad close up. I have two mouse cursors now, it seems like its getting worse, or im becoming aware of it. Seriously, someone tell me how to fix this. Please.
Well, for starters, stop stretching your eye. It is most likely what causes the doubling. The way you fix astigmatism or strabismus is the same way you fix myopia.
To answer your question about centralization:
There is a certain area in the center of your vision where your eye has the best resolution (highest density of optical receptors). Bates found that people with imperfect site try to see the whole letter at once, which is impossible. You can correct this bad habit by looking at the letter and imagining that you see only the small part that you look at best, and avoid trying to see the entire letter at once. You can also do swinging and shifting to improve the shift, which naturally improves central fixation. The swing is an optical illusion noticed by people with perfect sight. Bates explained it VERY well in his book, as well as detailed instructions on how to achieve it. Both concepts are explained very well in his book, I suggest you find them (try the "central fixation" chapter, and another one I can't remember) and carefully read them.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask us, but you cannot simply come in here and say you didn't understand anything and ask us to explain everything. There is also a forum called "method of the month" that was created just for that purpose.
As far as a routine goes, you should do whatever helps you. In your case I would practice centralization, shifting, swinging, and palming (to reduce the strain you put on by stretching your eye). I think most people perform palming at least 3 times each day for about 5 mins each, but you should do whatever brings you the best relaxation. Centralization, shifting, swining, you can practice everywhere (on the bus etc..) anytime, but I like to spend 15min in the morning performing these in front of an eye chart, along with imagination and memory. Also, I think sketching can be of great help in your case - you can practice it in almost any situation.
But the whole point is that Dr. Bates did those experiments already so you wouldn't have to, and the results are right there in his book.