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a few months
Hello guys is it possible for me to get from 20/80 to 20/20 or better in 1 or 2 months?  I palm 20-25 minutes everyday and I spend at least 30 minutes outdoors almost everyday.

Dear Otter,

No one can tell you this.

But I would suggest that if you clear enough
to pass all DMV level tests (read 3/4 inch letters
at 20 feet) you have achieved a major success
from -3.75 diopters.

Keep us posted on your progress.

yesterday I got headaches and I palmed to get rid of them.  I havent noticed any improvement and I've started 2 weeks ago.  Also, is it okay if i practice swinging on an office chair. I like to spin myself on them and imagine that the world is turning the opposite direction.  Its kind of fun!
dang no one is responding.

I like doing that too LOL! It also reminds me of when I was really little and me and my brother would take turns spinning each other really fast. I actually think it would be beneficial! But just make sure you don't get dizzy.

Your goal should be to produce a clear flash - nothing else!! To produce a clear flash, practice various Bates techniques while keeping in mind that you aren't trying to produce any sort of profound relaxation - you're just undoing the unnecessary strain that you are abusing your eyes and whole body with! Also remember that there are infinite ways to do the Bates method wrong, and only ONE way to do it right (Bates says this somewhere). Always keep in mind that the RIGHT WAY is the EASIEST!! This is nothing complicated!

After producing your first clear flash, simply use the same methods that worked for you over and over again, until you finally realize that the strain is useless and you finally become comfortable with relaxation, therefore the improvement becomes more or less permanent. There is no need to abuse your eyes ever again!

"It is only when they become convinced that the one way they can obtain perfect sight is by rest, or that when their sight is imperfect, a strain is necessary to keep it imperfect, that a permanent improvement, is obtained." –W.H. Bates

Another good quote:

"Remember your successes (things seen perfectly); forget your failures (things seen imperfectly); patients who do this are cured quickly."

Good luck!  Smile

Hello, dear Otter,

Dr. Bates himself practiced his own method for “six months ... and a year� before recovering his own near-vision.

In his book, Dr. Bates describes how he experienced his own first clear flashes when someone else assisted him on retinoscope, he says, “through many long and tedious hours while I studied my own case.�

“My progress after this was not what could be called rapid. It was six months before I could read the newspapers with any kind of comfort, and a year before I obtained my present accommodative range of fourteen inches, from four inches to eighteen; but the experience was extremely valuable, for I had in pronounced form every symptom subsequently observed in other presbyopic patients.

Fortunately for the patients, it has seldom taken me as long to cure other people as it did to cure myself. In some cases a complete and permanent cure was effected in a few minutes. Why, I do not know. I will never be satisfied till I find out.�

Apparently Dr. Bates inspired such confidence in his patients that some experienced profound relaxation under his personal guidance. Other Bates patients simply would not give up and succeeded in quickly recovering their vision by dedicating themselves to practice in-between appointments with Dr. Bates.

One elderly man left Dr. Bates office, went home and recovered his vision by palming for 20-hours straight! But Dr. Bates did not tell him to do that. This 81-year-old man imagined he would see clearly if he palmed like that and experienced such perfect relaxation that way that he recovered his vision.

Cheers and warm regards, Catherine
Dear Otter and Catherine

Subject:  Vision clearing from 20/80 to pass the DMV in six months.

While Cathrine's situation is different (touch of presbyopia),
here estimate of six months is good.

We get into this situations slowly, like a year or two.

Then we get yanked into a school exam, and the
demand is that we read the 20/20 line INSTANTLY.

(After spending all morning reading at 6 inches (or
-6.5 diopters.)

So we look up, and can not read the 20/50 line.

The demand goes out that we MUST get a strong
minus this instant, or our eyes will fall out, and
we must keep them on all the time, or our
eyes will spin in their sockets.

If, instead of this rush-rush effort to read the
Snellen instantly, we were given some support
with Bates, then we probably could clear
our Snellen after some work -- as they
did in 1913.

But if you are down to 20/80, and have been
there some time, with a -3.75 diopter prescription,
then you can expect it will take six months to
begin to clear your Snellen.

I think this is what  Catherine is suggesting.

But as you use your Bates method, with Dave's
support you should see your vision improve.


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