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Getting to grips with Bates method
#16
Oh, I see what you mean by "investigator bias".
Do you really think that the bias will be great enough for a 20/80 person to believe he is 20/20?

No chance.  Sure he may think he is 20/60, but who cares.  They will be able to see improvement either way.  In other words, the shift from the correct VA will usually be the same.
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#17
I didn't mention numbers or degree.  It is fully possible, and maybe even likely, that somebody will find improvement where none exist--if improvement is what they're looking for.

Happens all the time.  That's why they do "double-blind" testing.
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#18
Quote:In other words, the shift from the correct VA will usually be the same.
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#19
On what basis do you make that statement?
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#20
on the basis of reason, think about it.  I outlined why I think so my previous two posts.  You need to read them a little more carefully  Wink

NoBones, you are very frustrating to discuss things with.  You seem to be offensive on the inside but trying to sugar-coat things on the outside.  Most of the time it seems like if you have something in your head, you will believe it's right with no regards to what anyone says.  I feel like i'm arguing with someone who knows nothing but have a very big self-image.

Most of your offense, goes towards otis, and still does after the comment that Dave made.
No offense, but I think you should ease up man and act a little more informal and friendly.  Most of this is coming from the way you word your posts.

Paul
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#21
Actually, i read your previous posts quite closely, thank you.

When a visual fields test is conducted, the technician "calibrates" to set a baseline.  During the calibration, and during the test, "dummies" are fired.  In other words, you're asked to tell when you see something (like dots in your analogy).  Many people report seeing something when there was nothing present.

This is because they're--unintentionally--giving the answer they assume the technician wants to see.

The same thing tends to happen with self-reporting in medical research--including with the much vaunted placebo effect:

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"The basis of reason" doesn't happen to address that.  "Reason" has led us astray for millenia (geocentrism, flat Earth, etc.).  That's why it's a good idea to question that of which we feel so certain.
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#22
I got 20/80 when I went to an eye exam and they checked my eyes.  I've read a snellen a month ago and had 20/80, and last 2 weeks and had 20/80
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#23
Dear Otter,

Good, now you have an OBJECTIVE starting point.

You know your starting point EXACTLY.

The standard judgment of the majority-opinion
OD is that it is impossible for anyone
to clear their Snellen by using
Bates method or heated rice balls (Brooks theory
and method.)  Similar to sunning.

So the next step is to begin the Bates methods,
palming, swinging, sunning, and verify
that you Snellen slowly clears to pass
these DMV requirements.

When you verify this for youself, OBJECTIVELY,
you will no longer have to bother with
people who insist that Bates is wrong,
and vision-clearing is impossible.

I wish you all success, partner.

Otis
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#24
otis Wrote:The standard judgment of the majority-opinion
OD is that it is impossible for anyone
to clear their Snellen by using
Bates method or heated rice balls (Brooks theory
and method.)  Similar to sunning.

Now this is just another example, Paul, of why some people may react to Otis in a way that you deem "offensive."

"Majority-opinion" OD's and MD's wrote the PubMed published article about periocular warming and its effect on accommodative amplitudes:

Click me.  Proof is better than fiction!

When Otis claims that he speaks for entire industries, he really only speaks for himself.

If you've only ever read his side, I can see why you might rush to his defense. 

As I once said: I think that people looking for natural methods to improve their vision want honest information. 

Honest information is neither the "majority" nor the "second" opinion. 

It's simply honest information.
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