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Just a few questions

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Just a few questions
#1
So, I know that Bates said if you stare at a blank wall your eyes will relax. Now, since there is a shortage of completely blank walls where I live, I took the idea from that post by chris hansen where standing in the dark will have the same effect because the eyes have nothing to focus on. Now, here's where I run into a few problems. Apparently my eyes don't like having nothing to focus on. They create something for me to focus on. I start seeing illusions of a white flashing blob on the edge of my vision. In addition, you know what happens to a TV when it receives no image? That fuzzy white screen? I see that often too. I feel that the presence of these hallucinations, if you will, detracts from my relaxation. A similar effect happens in lighted places, where I often see what is known as "muscae volantes" - those floating shapes. My eyes attempt to follow them, and this distracts and strains me greatly. Any suggestions on how to remedy this situation?
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#2
Yes, you'll see illusions in the dark as long as you think about whether you see them or not. When you shut off the lights, think of it as a chance to completely let your eyes go and start paying attention to staying comfortable and rested. You might feel your eyes do things you didn't expect.

So the trick is to think of something else. That's where Bates's black dot comes in, and anything else having to do with memory. It's a way to occupy your visual center with something else besides what's coming in your eyes, and the habit of strain goes away if you're successful. Keep at it for a while, though - it will happen when you least expect it.

Or you could practice blind swings - Just turning your body loosely back and forth, imagining the world swinging easily, just for the purpose of loosening up. It's a good chance to see how you're handling yourself, your breathing, your thinking patterns, without the distraction of visual input that your mind is ordinarily flooded with. And especially notice any tension around your eyes and see if you can easily let any of it go.

Dave
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#3
From what I know there is no such thing as dark.
Some things you see at dark are not illusions, there are bio-energetic fields that can be seen and felt, especially in the dark, by some people.

The staring on a blank wall is not a good idea.
First, most of the people can't relax in the dark.
Second, people who see at the dark, see the wall and other objects that might disturb.

So, I suggest doing this exercise only after some time with the palming, when the eyes know how to relax.
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#4
This is my understanding. A relaxed visual system will see black, if you don't see black it's a sign of tension. I see things like what you describe and it's about the same with my eyes open or closed. After a while the darkness suddenly gets darker, it's a little disorientating but it's a sign of relaxation. When I swing in the dark I sometimes see lights at the corners and it's the same with my eyes open or closed. I interpret it as another sign of tension.
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#5
chris hansen Wrote:This is my understanding. A relaxed visual system will see black, if you don't see black it's a sign of tension. I see things like what you describe and it's about the same with my eyes open or closed. After a while the darkness suddenly gets darker, it's a little disorientating but it's a sign of relaxation. When I swing in the dark I sometimes see lights at the corners and it's the same with my eyes open or closed. I interpret it as another sign of tension.

When I am in the dark I don't see black even when I am relaxed. People with perfect sight can see in the dark and don't see black when they are relaxed. I think that was wrong. There are parts in Bates' method that are a little wrong and missleading. (at least in my opinion.).
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#6
dragon28 Wrote:When I am in the dark I don't see black even when I am relaxed. People with perfect sight can see in the dark and don't see black when they are relaxed. I think that was wrong. There are parts in Bates' method that are a little wrong and missleading. (at least in my opinion.).

I guess I haven't seen anything to either support or contradict what I've read from the Bates material. I wouild be interested in more recent research on the subject. I did think it was intereting that, when I'm in a completly dark room, it looks the same with my eyes open or closed. That's why I feel that the things I see are illusions created in my mind.
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#7
I agree, Chris. I'm not a person who denies the existence of energy fields and all sorts of other things, visible and invisible, but it's such a commonly repeated experience for people to see fewer and fewer blobs of illusory color or static with their eyes closed when gradually relaxing.

Many people think they can relax completely after a few minutes, but they've kept up strain for so many years that they're unable to recognize complete relaxation or something close to it, and think they're relaxed when they're really straining even more than before, so often think falsely that they've hit it (and still can't see well). One key piece in this is going back to what Bates alluded to about effort. Someone who's used to straining will incorporate strain in trying to accomplish something, even relaxation, which in that case of course makes it impossible. So a person puts in strain, gets some kidn of sensations that he doesn't recognize, he might assume he hit relaxation, whereas in reality it might just be a different and more extreme way of straining.

Real relaxation is unmistakable because of the combined symptoms of muscles relaxing and falling loose that you had no idea were chronically tense, the eyes feeling completely comfortable, the visual memory being as perfect as if you were seeing something perfectly clearly, a feeling of rest throughout the body, and any number of other sensations depending on the person.

I'm not trying to presume what everyone's experiences are, just what common experiences are in regards to this.

Dave
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#8
Dave K Wrote:I agree, Chris. I'm not a person who denies the existence of energy fields and all sorts of other things, visible and invisible, but it's such a commonly repeated experience for people to see fewer and fewer blobs of illusory color or static with their eyes closed when gradually relaxing.

Many people think they can relax completely after a few minutes, but they've kept up strain for so many years that they're unable to recognize complete relaxation or something close to it, and think they're relaxed when they're really straining even more than before, so often think falsely that they've hit it (and still can't see well). One key piece in this is going back to what Bates alluded to about effort. Someone who's used to straining will incorporate strain in trying to accomplish something, even relaxation, which in that case of course makes it impossible. So a person puts in strain, gets some kidn of sensations that he doesn't recognize, he might assume he hit relaxation, whereas in reality it might just be a different and more extreme way of straining.

Real relaxation is unmistakable because of the combined symptoms of muscles relaxing and falling loose that you had no idea were chronically tense, the eyes feeling completely comfortable, the visual memory being as perfect as if you were seeing something perfectly clearly, a feeling of rest throughout the body, and any number of other sensations depending on the person.

I'm not trying to presume what everyone's experiences are, just what common experiences are in regards to this.

Dave

I know I am relaxed, I have more than four year experience with relaxation methods as Meditation, Rei-Ki and stuff like that.

If there is no difference in seeing the "illusions" when your eyes are closed or open it means that they are illussions.

What you've told about strain proves my point, you shouldn't start with this exercise untill you know how to relax your eyes perfectly. Doesn't it?
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#9
All right, I've finally got some time to post.

Hm. So when I use my memory in order to relax myself, should I imagine that I am seeing the black dot in my visual field? Or should I just think about the black dot?

I have more questions, then. What exactly is "sunning"? Allowing the sun to shine on your closed eyelids? How does it cause relaxation? And does the fact that this causes relaxation mean that what most people are saying, that looking at the sun damages the eyes by burning the retina, is not true?
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#10
dragon28 Wrote:What you've told about strain proves my point, you shouldn't start with this exercise untill you know how to relax your eyes perfectly. Doesn't it?

Isn't the point of the exercise to become relaxed? If you were already relaxed you wouldn't need the exercise.
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#11
js519 Wrote:All right, I've finally got some time to post.

Hm. So when I use my memory in order to relax myself, should I imagine that I am seeing the black dot in my visual field? Or should I just think about the black dot?

I have more questions, then. What exactly is "sunning"? Allowing the sun to shine on your closed eyelids? How does it cause relaxation? And does the fact that this causes relaxation mean that what most people are saying, that looking at the sun damages the eyes by burning the retina, is not true?

Just think about the black dot, or else something completely different. Have you ever had a clear image pop into your head for a moment? I get that sometimes with people's faces. That's what you're going for, but it stays longer. It only stays if you let go and don't strain to hold onto it. There's lot of things you might have good visual memories of besides the black dot. I also am pretty good with Simpsons characters, having watched it for 16 years or whatever.

Sunning is basically looking towards the sun with closed eyes and moving your head easily back and forth to flood the eyes with light and warmth. Some people recommend alternating sunning and palming - sort of like an alternating a cold and hot water bath to relax your feet, but different.

Looking toward the sun with closed eyes like this couldn't possibly damage the retina. Some people warn against sunning but really mean sungazing.

Dave
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#12
chris hansen Wrote:Isn't the point of the exercise to become relaxed? If you were already relaxed you wouldn't need the exercise.

Yes, the point of it is to practice relaxation, so if it by itself helps you relax, then that's what you're looking for. Relaxation is our natural state - we have to do something wrong in order to lose it, and continue doing something wrong in order to avoid it. So there can be a lot of things that cause you to relax temporarily, just because there's many ways of realizing something that's always available to you.

Dave
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#13
chris hansen Wrote:Isn't the point of the exercise to become relaxed? If you were already relaxed you wouldn't need the exercise.

Some people can't relaxe in the dark because if many things, in addition David said that some people don't really relax their eyes at all. So at first you need to learn how to relax your eyes, than try to relax your eyes in dark places.
Relaxing your eyes in dark places can help you in improving your night-vision.
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#14
dragon28 Wrote:Some people can't relaxe in the dark because if many things, in addition David said that some people don't really relax their eyes at all. So at first you need to learn how to relax your eyes, than try to relax your eyes in dark places.
Relaxing your eyes in dark places can help you in improving your night-vision.

Palming is one way of relaxing in darkness, and certainly that's one of the most basic exercises. Many people strain more to see things at night, but only because they can't accept that there's less to see.

Dave
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
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#15
Thanks, everyone. Now, there's one more question. There are times where I get "clear flashes", as Bates calls them - periods of time where my vision is better than it usually is. I presume that this is good, for it means my eyes are more relaxed, even though they are not completely relaxed. But one thing is strange. When I have one of these, there is a kind of stinging pain my eyes that makes my eyes water. Does this mean I am attempting the wrong kind of relaxation or does it simply mean my eyes aren't used to this relaxation?
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