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+--- Thread: Help please (/showthread.php?tid=2791)
RE: Help please - Aureus - 06-27-2014
(06-26-2014, 10:38 PM)gekonus Wrote: So basically astigmatism is another type of strain, so the solution is eye relaxation and reduced eye strain again right?
Astigmatism is an refractive error caused by either the cornea (typical case) or lens (rarer case). On the other hand, it's widelly accepted that myopia and hyperopia are reffractive errors caused by bigger or smaller eyeball than normal.
Since astigmatism caused by the lense is not very common and since it is also hard to detect let's say a word or two about corneal astigmatism. It is caused by irregularly shapped cornea or the cornea which has such biology that gives less or more refractive power in one or more angles than normal.
There are a lot of types of astigmatism, some are simple and some are complex. Your cornea, can for example focus some rays on the retina and some rays behind or in front of it. Some rays can be focused in front of it and some behind it. In some cases all the raysare focused in front of or behind the retina but this mistake can have different values for different angles. There are plenty of combinations.
It's a very common missunderstanding that only cylinder figure signifies the amount of astigmatism. This is not always the truth. You can have say sphere - 0.5 and cylinder -0.5 and normal eyeball length indicating that all the errors are due to your cornea. In this case this means that reffractive power of your cornea is bigger for the value of 0.5 dioptre for all the angles with added 0.5 dioptre in one angle. And this causes the blur. I personally think that this also inevitably causes the strain since our mind in general doesn't like blurred image and forces all the parts of our eyes to do something about it. And then it starts: eye muscles work a lot, the lense refocuses all the time trying to catch the sharp image...and you strain.
Theoretically there are two ways to get out of this: 1) to reshape your cornea and give it back its normal - round shape, or 2) to train your software (brain) to sharpen a blurred image the same way Photoshop does.
RE: Help please - gekonus - 06-27-2014
(06-27-2014, 12:46 PM)Aureus Wrote:(06-26-2014, 10:38 PM)gekonus Wrote: So basically astigmatism is another type of strain, so the solution is eye relaxation and reduced eye strain again right?
Astigmatism is an refractive error caused by either the cornea (typical case) or lens (rarer case). On the other hand, it's widelly accepted that myopia and hyperopia are reffractive errors caused by bigger or smaller eyeball than normal.
Since astigmatism caused by the lense is not very common and since it is also hard to detect let's say a word or two about corneal astigmatism. It is caused by irregularly shapped cornea or the cornea which has such biology that gives less or more refractive power in one or more angles than normal.
There are a lot of types of astigmatism, some are simple and some are complex. Your cornea, can for example send some rays on the retina and some rays behind or in front of it. Some rays can fall in front of it and some behind it. In some cases all the rays fall in front of or behind the retina but this mistake can have different values for different angles. There are plenty of combinations.
It's a very common missunderstanding that only cylinder figure signifies the amount of astigmatism. This is not always the truth. You can have say sphere - 0.5 and cylinder -0.5 and normal eyeball length indicating that all the errors are due to your cornea. In this case this means that reffractive power of your cornea is bigger for the value of 0.5 dioptre for all the angles with added 0.5 dioptre in one angle. And this causes the blur. I personally think that this also inevitably causes the strain since our mind in general doesn't like blurred image and forces all the parts of our eyes to do something about it. And then it starts: eye muscles work a lot, the lense refocuses all the time trying to catch the sharp image...and you strain.
Theoretically there are two ways to get out of this: 1) to reshape your cornea and give it back its normal - round shape, or 2) to train your software (brain) to sharpen a blurred image the same way Photoshop does.
reshape the cornea back to normal with astig charts I guess..
RE: Help please - Aureus - 06-27-2014
Different people teach different things but what almost all of them they have in common is the belief that some kind of eye movement will eventually reshape your cornea. Leo Angart, for example, suggests looking at the image called the Tibetan wheel clockwise and counterclockwise, Meir Schneider suggests play with a ball, some others give a tip of rotating your eyes a certain number of times several times a day etc.
You have to find yourself what works for you.
RE: Help please - clarknight - 06-28-2014
(06-27-2014, 09:57 AM)Nancy Wrote: Gekonus, like Clark said, moving your gaze along the radiating lines on the astigmatism chart will get you used to seeing equally well in all angles. Just notice, don't strain.
Here's something I wrote about Dry Eye, since I get so many questions on it, which may help: http://www.iblindness.org/655/understanding-dry-eye/
To me every clear flash is a "real" clear flash. If you're seeing better, even momentarily, why question it? Enjoy it, and invite it to stay for a while!
And Clark, please take care of yourself. You can't help as many people and spread the information about NVI if you're not OK.
Nancy; quote; "And Clark, please take care of yourself. You can't help as many people and spread the information about NVI if you're not OK."
From Clark; Nancy; Please stop cutting me down. There's nothing wrong with my vision, it is clear. You always do this to me when I post on iblindness, in an attempt to get me off this forum because I teach for free.
Please, I am saying this nice; please stop attacking my character and ability to teach. You don't have to sneak in these 'phony being caring but really its a put down' remarks in your posts. You tried to force me to change my signature, other things in the past. Please just let me teach, for free, so all people have access to complete training.
Didn't think I had to defend myself and go into detail; the tension, spaceyness of the eyes occurring 'sometimes' after 10 hour days graphics on the computer, lifting on the injury side of body-neck (caused by the dishonest chiropractor) goes away in 30 min to hour after relax, go outside, get away from the computer. The sight is clear, the stiffness goes away.
I just got a PM from a person on here wanting help. I had to refuse training him on here due to not wanting to have to deal with the putdowns. I told him to contact me elsewhere. So David loses out on what could be some good free training I would have liked to post HERE on iblindesss.
So please; when I am teaching on iblindness; just allow me to teach. Cured many students, The method works.
Nancy; why don't you teach fully for free. Create videos teaching the Bates Method, some webpages and post/link them here. I am sure people would appreciate that. You can copy Dr. Bates Magazines, books to your website. That's the true, original source of the training.
RE: Help please - gekonus - 06-28-2014
About the Tibetan wheel - they advice you to put the chart 3cm away from your nose and do exactly like the other astigmatism charts. But when I think about it, putting it 3cm away will cause an extreme strain to the eyes when you focus on it and worsen the myopia.. did I miss something?
RE: Help please - clarknight - 06-28-2014
(06-27-2014, 01:17 PM)Aureus Wrote: Different people teach different things but what almost all of them they have in common is the belief that some kind of eye movement will eventually reshape your cornea. Leo Angart, for example, suggests looking at the image called the Tibetan wheel clockwise and counterclockwise, Meir Schneider suggests play with a ball, some others give a tip of rotating your eyes a certain number of times several times a day etc.
You have to find yourself what works for you.
Look at letters on the eyechart and imagine like Bates did;
that there are caves or mountains, people walking among them. I was doing this last night; looking at the letters, imaging pilots with those old WW2 hats were up in a cliff cave hideout; planning their flight, making camp, a fire at night, then building a rail in the day, green trees, grass, rocks... All in color, action. Movement of the imaginary characters made my eyes-vision move upon the chart letters without trying to see or think about the eyechart; it was perfectly clear. Did with both eyes, one eye at a time; all clear and so easy; this imagination thing takes away effort to see, even the subconscious effort.
RE: Help please - Aureus - 06-28-2014
(06-28-2014, 03:44 AM)gekonus Wrote: About the Tibetan wheel - they advice you to put the chart 3cm away from your nose and do exactly like the other astigmatism charts. But when I think about it, putting it 3cm away will cause an extreme strain to the eyes when you focus on it and worsen the myopia.. did I miss something?
You don't focus in the way you try to see the image clearly. It would be impossible anyway unless you have highly myopic eyes. The point is to move the eyes slowly in accord to a certain pattern. Different images created for this purpose are there just to 'lead' your look - nothing else. And also there's no spiritual meaning in the Tibetan wheel (although it looks a bit weird) - it's just a tool for physical exercise.
Leo Angart is of opinion that astigmatism is caused by eye muscles being tense in one, several or all directions and this exercise is aimed at loosening them up so that your cornea gets back its normal shape. This means they have to be loosened (free of tension) equally in all directions.
Here is the video in which he explains how this exercise is to be performed and why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAakgY2fdbE
He also claims that astigmatism is a refractive error easiest to erradicate. He claims it takes just a couple of days or few weeks maximum if your astigmatism is very stubborn. Don't be too disappointed if you find this untrue in your case.
This is another video showing him in one TV show together with two young persons who have attended his training one and sceptical ophtalmologist who insists Leo's method (read Dr Bates') is unproven:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxZXnL08BwM
RE: Help please - gekonus - 06-28-2014
Is there a way to notice if the astigmatism is gone without going to an optometrist? cause my astigmatism is mild anyway, and from a close distance I barerly even notice it (if at all) and from far distance the myopia is taking place so you cant really notice the astigmatism.. I hope this exercise helps myopia aswell eh..
Im a bit afraid to go to the optometrist anyway
RE: Help please - wtfgod - 06-28-2014
(06-28-2014, 05:31 AM)Aureus Wrote: [quote='gekonus' pid='19313' dateline='1403952283']
This is another video showing him in one TV show together with two young persons who have attended his training one and sceptical ophtalmologist who insists Leo's method (read Dr Bates') is unproven:
First comment on the video made me laugh pretty hard.
Also, is there anything the british wont put on tv?
RE: Help please - Nancy - 06-28-2014
Clark, I wasn't aware I was "cutting you down" when I expressed concern about you! You sounded like you weren't OK in your last post so I was worried about you. You've given a lot to many people here and I want you to be healthy. That's all I meant. Sorry you took it the wrong way.
I give a lot of information here for free, including my many blog posts, which I also share on Facebook and with my energy medicine colleagues. Those who choose to work with me privately, and pay for that, get my dedicated attention and help. Most re-book for future sessions, considering it totally worth the money, and some send their friends to me.
I don't criticize you for teaching for free. Why do you criticize me for teaching for money? We're both helping people. That's a good thing! I'm sorry if I offended you -- that was not my intent.
(06-28-2014, 06:09 AM)gekonus Wrote: Is there a way to notice if the astigmatism is gone without going to an optometrist? cause my astigmatism is mild anyway, and from a close distance I barerly even notice it (if at all) and from far distance the myopia is taking place so you cant really notice the astigmatism.. I hope this exercise helps myopia aswell eh..
Im a bit afraid to go to the optometrist anyway
The astigmatism is gone when you can see equally clearly in all angles. If you do an exercise like the Tibetan Wheel and see all the arms with the same clarity, that's pretty good proof to me.
Why are you afraid to go to the eye doctor? Even if he/she says your vision isn't good and wants to increase the strength of your glasses, you can disagree -- they're YOUR eyes. People often test worse than usual in the eye doctor's office becaause they're nervous there. And maybe you'll get GOOD news!
RE: Help please - gekonus - 06-28-2014
Yeah, I think I'll go get 0.75 in both eyes without cylinder, that should do it, I will not see 20/20, but its better that way.. cause right now, with -1 and 0.5Cyl I can see the 20/15 letters pretty fine.It will also be better when taking the glasses off since the difference wont be as big. Im practicing an olympic air pistol shooting 4 times a week, and I do it with glasses so... thats a total of around 9-10 hours a week.. getting used to higher prescription is always bad if I understand correctly
(Sorry that Im asking so many questions hehe :\ ) As I saw, the use of tibetan wheel happens with both eyes? o_O I thought its better to work on astigmatism with one eye at a time? or can you fix the astigmatism when looking with both eyes? then again, its impossible to use one eye at a time when your nose is in the middle of the wheel
Thanks for your precious time btw! I love you guys
RE: Help please - Nancy - 06-28-2014
Gekonus, first, thanks for the thanks. Someone who appreciates the help is more likely to get more help! And that's what this forum is all about. Thanks again to David, for keeping it going!
About using the Tibetan Wheel, I've held it a few inches from my face and used both eyes together. I'm sure you can find different instructions if you look. Here's one simple set I just found with some words about the benefits: http://www.methodsofhealing.com/does-the-tibetan-eye-chart-work/ When I first did this I was alarmed to find how much it hurt to move my eyes around this way. Now they're a lot more flexible and can move in every direction without pain. Like every other exercise, do it gently without rushing or pushing, and you'll see improvement.
If you need a prescription to function safely, like when driving a car, don't go without it, please. I've written before how I used to take my glasses off at stoplights, puting them on top of my head, then put them back on my face when I was driving more than 5 mph. Driving at 2 mph without glasses felt daring and adventurous to me back then!
Yes, stronger glasses train your eyes to see clearly through the glasses only, which is not good for your natural healthy vision, so do without them as much as you can.
Don't apologize for asking questions. That's how we learn, and someone else here might have had the same question so you helped that person too by asking.
RE: Help please - Aureus - 06-28-2014
(06-28-2014, 11:03 AM)gekonus Wrote: Yeah, I think I'll go get 0.75 in both eyes without cylinder, that should do it, I will not see 20/20, but its better that way.. cause right now, with -1 and 0.5Cyl I can see the 20/15 letters pretty fine.It will also be better when taking the glasses off since the difference wont be as big. Im practicing an olympic air pistol shooting 4 times a week, and I do it with glasses so... thats a total of around 9-10 hours a week.. getting used to higher prescription is always bad if I understand correctly
(Sorry that Im asking so many questions hehe :\ ) As I saw, the use of tibetan wheel happens with both eyes? o_O I thought its better to work on astigmatism with one eye at a time? or can you fix the astigmatism when looking with both eyes? then again, its impossible to use one eye at a time when your nose is in the middle of the wheel
Thanks for your precious time btw! I love you guys
1) If your plan is to go down slowly by taking a couple of glasses with under-prescription every time you make some progress than I shouldn't totally erase cylinder at the first step, especially if it has positive value (+0.5). I'd settle for these figures: Sphere -0.75, Cylinder +0.25. You may find your vision with lenses without cylinder much worse (blurred) than you think now. As someone said - a good suggestion is to wear them only when you absolutelly have to.
2) You can't do the Tibethan wheel with one eye unless one eye of yours is frosen due to some medical reason. I know not a single person who is able to rotate one eye without rotation of the other eye. If you find someone with that ability offer him/her a dinner. Even if you close one eye you'll realize that under the eyelid it rotates the same way like the unclosed eye. On the other hand it seems to be possible to blink with the eyes separately (without moving the other eyelid at all - not even a millimetre) , though I haven't trained myself to do so.
RE: Help please - Nancy - 06-28-2014
Aureus wrote
2) You can't do the Tibethan wheel with one eye unless one eye of yours is frosen due to some medical reason. I know not a single person who is able to rotate one eye without rotation of the other eye. If you find someone with that ability offer him/her a dinner. Even if you close one eye you'll realize that under the eyelid it rotates the same way like the unclosed eye. On the other hand it seems to be possible to blink with the eyes separately (without moving the other eyelid at all - not even a millimetre) , though I haven't trained myself to do so.
============
(Me now)
I was assuming by one eye only Gekonus meant with the other eye patched, which is how many of us do the eye chart. I can close each eye separately, but I find the eye patch more relaxing for one-eyed chart practice. Yes, I can feel my patched eye going through the same motions as the seeing eye when I practice with the eye chart, but I don't think that's bad. Being covered with a black opaque patch, it is certainly not contributing to the seeing.
I honestly never thought of doing the Wheel with just one eye (with the other one patched). I guess if I had a big difference in CYL correction between my 2 eyes I might try this. Gekonus, how are you doing the Wheel with one eye?
RE: Help please - Aureus - 06-28-2014
This girl knows how to blink with each eye separately:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH6sMvnFqNo
She is also able to do other tricks with her eyes including rotating them separately but only to a little extent and always in the same way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtvQEsP5eI4
Just imagine a someone who's able to do this to the full extent: to directly stare at you with one eye while rotating the other eye clockwise and counterclockwise. Scary!
I also think that's better to look at the chart with one eye patched (or gently covered with your hand). Not many people are able to close one eye so gently that so that closing the eye doesn't produce - squinting after certain time. But probably for most of the people patching one eye is much easier anyway.
Gekonus, what is your vision acuity now? Have you tested it?
If you haven't done that yet you can download some eye charts and print them on good paper and check your current vision both indoors and outdoors. Just pay attention that they are printed on good paper. 80-gram paper is too thin and the letters are usually slightly greyish (not entirely black) and that impacts your results. It's also important that light source doesn't hit your eyes directly. Accept the results you have under normal circumstances.