Have any of you asked someone with 20/20 to explain to you how they see? It can lead to some really interesting conversations. Most (probably all) of them have never even thought about how they see. I have these conversations with my boyfriend all the time - he finds the Bates Method exceptionally interesting and likes to verify what I'm learning with what he does naturally.
The other day he was staring off into space (probably soft focusing) and I said:
"You look like a Myope"
and he said: "I don't even know what a Myope looks like"
and I said: "Blank stare, motionless eyes"
and he said: "What did I do? I don't even know what I did. Tell me how to look like a Myope."
and I said: "Stare at that lamp across the room and then try to see absolutely everything around it at the same time"
and he said:
"That's just stupid."
;D
Here's one from today - my boyfriend is '20/20' and I'll call myself 'Student' since 'Myope' no longer feels like who I am...
SNELLEN CHART - Central Fixation & Imagination (As long as it's interesting)
I asked my boyfriend to look at the Snellen Chart and try to describe to me how he looked at it, and this is what he said:
[the last line of the Snellen Chart was the 20 ft. line and we were 15 ft. away, so well within his comfort range]
Student: Can you read all of the letters?
20/20: Yes.
Student: Are they all clear?
20/20: Yes
Student: But you're not looking at the whole chart and reading them all at the same time, right?
20/20: No! (then a look like: 'why would I do that?!)
Student: So then what are you looking at specifically when you say that all the letters are clear? a letter? a line?
20/20: Each letter.
Student: So one letter at a time?
20/20: Yes.
Student: So if you're only looking at one letter at a time, then how do you know that all the other letters are also clear?
20/20: Well they're not. Only the one I'm looking at is clear but I know that all the others will be clear when I look at them. I guess I mean that I can't even imagine that they could be blurry.
Student: So you have absolutely no trouble reading every single letter on every line?
20/20: No. But the first time you asked me to do this I couldn't tell if the first letter on the last line was a D or a P. But now that I know it's a D I can only see a D. I would never think it was a P now that I know it's a D.
Student: When you look at the letters are you shifting your eyes around the chart or moving along each line, letter by letter?
20/20: Well I don't know how I'm supposed to do it, you didn't tell me. What am I supposed to do? I just look wherever it's interesting to look. But really, it's so boring. If you would let me choose what to look at, I'd much rather look at that mirror on the adjacent wall. Do you see it's reflection? How the whole room is reversed and completely different than the room you usually see? that's interesting! I could look at that reflection for a long time.
Student: Why?
20/20: Because I don't know right away what I'm looking at so it's fun to let my eyes skip around from colour to colour and shape to shape, imagining what it all could be. But once I figure it out then there's no reason to look at it anymore.
And then after a moment longer he said:
What's for dinner?
Ares Wrote:But be careful not to actually turn your boyfriend into a Myope...
haha!! I just read this and I've had the exact same thought before! I think he's safe, he has a much harder time understanding what I do with my eyes than I have understanding what he does with his (since studying Bates, that is...).
seetheleaves Wrote:And then after a moment longer he said:
What's for dinner?
That is actually interesting...
It teach us that we must stop thinking about our eyes and what we see and how we see it, and focus on more important thinks. In nature, seeking food is far more important than questioning the way you see. It seems to be of the point like what i am writing now, but what i can learn from someone with 20/20, is to let nature do its work.
Looking for more "wisdom from 20/20" ? Well, I would like to make my contribution regarding this issue:
The other day I was talking with a friend and asked him some things about how he see, he promised me to be honest with the few questions about natural vision, I tested his vision and he saw 20/20 clearly in indoor (with artificial lights).
I don't call myself myopic anymore, so my name here will be also 'student'.
Student: Have you noticed when you look at something you don't see the whole image at the same time and you don't grab it or stare at while you see an object or text, etc?
F: Yes! I've done that many times and even I have said to my self or asked why I scan that text or keep looking there.(He mean that he is continuously shifting and looking for details)
Student: In order to see a text on the street or something you move your attention around that letters or just you see the whole image?
F: Yes, I've noticed that, when I look at sign for example Im a sort of drawing the letters around them. (Again he said that he is shifting between points in order to see something or looking for details.)
Student: Now, look at the chart and glance the big E, look at the top of the letter, have you noticed as the bottom of the letter seems worse while your attention is at the top of it?
F: Yes, this just seems more black.
Student: While you're looking at the big E, do you notice like the F or P appears worse?
F: Yes, but its becouse the E is bigger...
F: Good... Im going for water.
He became aware of central fixation but not given much importance to the whole issue.
Again we can see, that the way people with normal vision sees is of little importance to them and of course prefer to give up the subject.
That's a good one, Lord! Thanks for sharing! I really like this idea of 'drawing the letters' - because especially with signs I tend to grab onto the whole sign at once - this is a nice reminder that continued shifting and looking for details is absolutely necessary (and natural) in order to read at a great distance.
Isn't it funny how uncomplicated all of this is for people with 20/20? I look forward to the day when going to get a drink of water is more important to me than 'trying to see'.
Lord and seetheleaves, thanks for this helpful (and entertaining!) information. The drawing or sketching of the letters reminds me of Tom Quackenbush's nose-pencil or Carina Goodrich's magic nose-feather. I'm firmly in the middle of this process of learning: I try to read the whole sign at once, catch myself (usually!), remind myself to look at one letter or part of a letter at a time, do so, get some clarity, and as i continue the entire sign clears up and I'm still surprised, no matter how many times this happens. I'm hoping keeping at this will remind my body/mind/brain/eyes of this natural healthy way to see clearly, which I must have had when I was 1 or 2 or 3. Just because I already had glasses when I learned to read, with those child-"friendly" (myopia-encouraging!) books with huge letters, doesn't mean the good habits aren't in there somewhere.
This is a very good thread. Great questions. It's one thing to read material by Bates or others and pretty much understand it, but when you actually run specific things by a person with normal vision in the context of looking at an eye chart or something else, you can learn some interesting ways of looking at it that didn't occur to you before. It's a little closer to the truth of the matter, because it hasn't gone through the process of being put into concepts and categorized by someone who has certain ideas established about it already. Those people with normal vision don't know anything about the concepts. They just tell you, as best they can, the pure truth. So be careful about categorizing what you think they're referring to, because there could be some interesting things in what they're telling you that you haven't considered or actually seem wrong unless you take some time to consider it.
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
I once asked a top student with perfect eyesight at an University how you shall behave/be/feel in order to show awareness. Then he immediately just answered: "relaxed".
So it was quite obvious to him that he always was relaxed and aware in everything he did.
He also said that he didn't expect more of himself than just to become approved and be able to continue his studies at the University, but then he always scored top results anyway. ???
So just by having these goals set that low he certainly got relaxed out of it.
This amazed me, but I know he told me the truth.
My conclusion is that he had entered some spiral of success due to that he had an ability to understand how to relax in everything he did.
So you can talk about some intelligence of knowing how to relax in everything you do, he just knew it,
but I honestly don't know how to always become dynamically relaxed, I feel I have some hadicap here that prevents me from being able to relax always. Have you also seen that there is such an intelligence of knowing how to relax ?
hammer Wrote:So you can talk about some intelligence of knowing how to relax in everything you do, he just knew it,
but I honestly don't know how to always become dynamically relaxed, I feel I have some hadicap here that prevents me from being able to relax always. Have you also seen that there is such an intelligence of knowing how to relax ?
That's the stumbling block that it seems almost everyone has with applying the Bates method, sensing that relaxation is an important component but somehow being unable to relax. Lately I've been trying to show that people have it backwards. You have to use your eyes right in order to relax. Relaxation is not some high achievement or something that you can just "do" if there's a reason you're chronically tense. Relaxation is just an indication that you're using your body right at the moment, or more specifically here, your visual process that you're using isn't conflicted with itself, so it doesn't tense up. When we're stuck and don't know what to do, we tense up. Flight or fright. Deer in the headlights.
Dave
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"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
