this morning as i was "working/playing" with convergence and divergence, i noticed something.... i held an image of two dots on a piece of paper about two feet away from my eyes. i relaxed my eyes until a third dot appeared.... once the third dot was there comfortably, i shift my focus to an object across the room... then... while seeing the object across the room, i noticed that the third dot was still visible in my peripheral vision.... shifting back to the dots, there it was solid and strong... shift back to the distant object... object is reasonably clear, and dot number three still there.... any thoughts? thanks in advance.
jiminos Wrote:this morning as i was "working/playing" with convergence and divergence, i noticed something.... i held an image of two dots on a piece of paper about two feet away from my eyes. i relaxed my eyes until a third dot appeared.... once the third dot was there comfortably, i shift my focus to an object across the room... then... while seeing the object across the room, i noticed that the third dot was still visible in my peripheral vision.... shifting back to the dots, there it was solid and strong... shift back to the distant object... object is reasonably clear, and dot number three still there.... any thoughts? thanks in advance.
This is too vague for me to duplicate.
Size of 'dots'?
Distance between dots?
Is object clearer than normal or blurry as usual?
Is each eye's image of object the same?
Do you have a specific question?
the dots are about a quarter inch in diameter. distance between is about one and one-half inch. object is minimally clearer than usual. Left eye image is blurrier than right eye image. no specific question, i guess. but thanks for reading and posting anyway.
Do you sense that the 'minimally clearer' eyesight experienced is a result of this observation/training method?
When looking straight ahead, are you right or left eye dominant?
Are you right or left handed?
Does your left eye ordinarilly have worse/blurrier vision than the right?
@sway1 - kinda hard to describe. in fact the more i think of how to describe it, the more difficult it becomes to explain. hopefully, somebody else will be able to explain it. for me.... one minute there are two images... then... it's like they just slide together to form the third ... "stereo".... image..... poof.
@ jmartinc4 - thanks for the response. not sure how to answer your questions... i try not to quantify things so much... mostly, i just notice things... then i let them go.... the less i think about what my eyes are doing, the more relaxed they are, so things often just slide right past me. my left eye is weaker. i am right handed.
@sway1 - if you have ever used one of those little hand-held stereoscope viewers which have been around at least since the early 1900s (I had one made by Disney when I was a kid in the 1960s), they hold two images (one for each eye) of the same object or scene, but each image is from a slightly different angle, and when the viewer relaxes, the two images unite and the result is depth perception. A similar effect is achieved/required for the magic eye pictures. Also, if you remember the pop-up picture books and things like that are somewhat like what convergence means to me.
If you think about it, each of our eyes' images is in fact at a slightly different angle. Myopes like myself have pretty normal depth perception near, but we lose it when looking far. One of the first ways I started to develop my far depth perception was by looking at swaying (!) trees and bushes in nature, relaxing, and remembering depth perception.
JMartinC4 Wrote:@sway1 - if you have ever used one of those little hand-held stereoscope viewers which have been around at least since the early 1900s (I had one made by Disney when I was a kid in the 1960s), they hold two images (one for each eye) of the same object or scene, but each image is from a slightly different angle, and when the viewer relaxes, the two images unite and the result is depth perception. A similar effect is achieved/required for the magic eye pictures. Also, if you remember the pop-up picture books and things like that are somewhat like what convergence means to me.
If you think about it, each of our eyes' images is in fact at a slightly different angle. Myopes like myself have pretty normal depth perception near, but we lose it when looking far. One of the first ways I started to develop my far depth perception was by looking at swaying (!) trees and bushes in nature, relaxing, and remembering depth perception.
Yes, and the most magic about this is that you create the third dimension out of two dimensions (or pictures).
Sometimes I take on my sharp lenses and just enjoy depth perception at far distance, it IS so BEAUTIFUL art,
and the depth perception is perfect,
so this leads me to believe that the depth perception is just a consequence.
You get depth perception if your eyes are synchronised and relaxed.
The more relaxed my eyes are the more I need to synchronize my eyes with central fixation/shifting.
I practice shifting on objects at close, middle, far distances in a line with eachother: lining up 3 objects, all 3 centered between the left and right eyes, at eye level, central field. Shift on close object, then distant, then close...
When using one eye at a time; teachers always say to keep the objects in the described placement, even when using one eye. This keeps normal convergence, divergence, balanced vision.
I also have used a second alteration to this method;
(only when I use one eye, never when using both eyes together);
I place a object, say crayon, directly in front of the one eye I am practicing with, then shift on that object. Then I look at a object in the distance that is directly behind, in line with the close object and the eye and shift on that object. Then back to the close object, then distant.., and any middle objects that are also in this line up.
I notice this seems to avoid the need for convergence, divergence by the eye and seems to put all energy into working that eyes accommodation, un-accommodation, movement and central fixation with that eyes single central field.
I then practice in this way with the other eye.
End with the teachers method practicing with each eye, one at a time with all objects between the left and right eyes, both eyes central field again. Always start and end with both eyes together, all objects lined up in both eyes combined central fields, between the left and right eyes.
Then just practice shifting around with complete free eye movement on any objects throughout the scenery, different distances, without objects having to be in a straight line.
Always got great clarity for 40+ years doing this.
JMartinC4 Wrote:@sway1 - if you have ever used one of those little hand-held stereoscope viewers which have been around at least since the early 1900s (I had one made by Disney when I was a kid in the 1960s), they hold two images (one for each eye) of the same object or scene, but each image is from a slightly different angle, and when the viewer relaxes, the two images unite and the result is depth perception. A similar effect is achieved/required for the magic eye pictures. Also, if you remember the pop-up picture books and things like that are somewhat like what convergence means to me.
If you think about it, each of our eyes' images is in fact at a slightly different angle. Myopes like myself have pretty normal depth perception near, but we lose it when looking far. One of the first ways I started to develop my far depth perception was by looking at swaying (!) trees and bushes in nature, relaxing, and remembering depth perception.
This is something I've obviously never experienced, and I'm sad about it.
Although my *subjective* sense of depth seems to be ok to me-and I can judge distances with an air rifle no problem-there is a whole new universe waiting for me.
sway1 Wrote:... This is something I've obviously never experienced, and I'm sad about it. Although my *subjective* sense of depth seems to be ok to me-and I can judge distances with an air rifle no problem-there is a whole new universe waiting for me.
I'm no genius but I am righteously stubborn. I remember when the 'Magic Eye' pictures and picture books came out - and I stared into various pictures for many minutes even hours without success. I could not 'see' what I was supposed to see. I'd get frustrated, give up, and try it again the next day. When I finally got it, many days later, it was pretty incredible.
Sway1, I was once where you are now and now can see 3D fine. Yes, the depth experience is one of wonder and gratitude for my visual system. Here's a blog post I made about this http://dreamersight.wordpress.com/2010/0...ing-depth/ and if you search my blog for "3D" or "depth" you might find something else useful. Don't despair -- identifying that you have this limitation is the first step to removing it.
It's the divergent squinting practice I need to find out about. Any kid can cross their eyes but to make them go the other way like Bates did to exercise the muscles has got to be the only way mine's going to clear.
I tried it the other evening by crossing eyes, and then moving my finger to the extreme left in one eye's field of view. And doing this without crossing. A mobile phone with an inner view facility helps to check progress! And it's funny too so for anyone reading, you might want to delete videos afterwards
sway1 Wrote:It's the divergent squinting practice I need to find out about. Any kid can cross their eyes but to make them go the other way like Bates did to exercise the muscles has got to be the only way mine's going to clear.
I tried it the other evening by crossing eyes, and then moving my finger to the extreme left in one eye's field of view. And doing this without crossing. A mobile phone with an inner view facility helps to check progress! And it's funny too so for anyone reading, you might want to delete videos afterwards
You are absolutely not synchronizing the eyes together onto the foveas by doing this and thus unfortunately it will not work.
After a few months of the exercises I have to report a bitter/sweet result. My amblyopia meant I didn't use my squinted eye except for peripheral vision. Now it's getting used to shifting and swinging the vision has improved to the extent that it's starting to see centrally, with the fovea. I always saw a little of an extra image of what I was directly looking at, but this has gotten more pronounced.
Walking down the street I am getting a little confused by some of the sights and have to blink to 'ignore' the annoying image from the amblyopic eye. I'm hoping it'll straighten out in time. I'm having strange sensations in the corresponding hemisphere of my brain and often get clicking in my nose, meaning something is happening deep in there. For some number of years the eye felt 'yucky' as if there was a blotch of bad energy hovering over and inside it. This was a signal the eye's lack of use was slowly killing it. The feelings of strain were always there when I thought about them but I am much more aware of subtle strains within.
