Progress halted by blinking?

[Ben]

I have read these forums quite a bit over the last couple months and I just recently joined. I have a couple questions. First to preface:

Since about the beginning of August, I have read extensively on the Bates method, as well as David's version. I believe I have gotten the hang of it. My left eye is my dominant, stronger eye while my right eye is substantially weaker.

Using an eye chart, I have been practicing the method, particularly David's(his main one and a few of his blogs have enlightened some good information). I have been doing this about every day for the last couple months and during the exercise, I can get my vision clearer. But because my right eye is so abysmal, it doesn't want to participate, so my left eye just gets clearer. After reading these forums and their suggestions on weaker eyes, I then patch the left and practice with the right and I can get MUCH clearer vision with my right eye. Its very exciting. BUT...

My problem is that I have to have a lot of concentration(shifting, focusing on the smallest point, centralizing, breathing, and of course the balancing act of doing this while "letting the vision go" and staying relaxed). My biggest problem is BLINKING. Which from what I understand is supposed to be about every 5-8 seconds. Most of the time, when I blink, the clear(er) vision instantly GOES AWAY. When I practice the butterfly blinks(the fast ones that just bring the upper eyelid down), its much better and I can keep the clear vision, but my eyes get very dry and scratchy, and after a couple minutes, I can't continue. I think I'm blinking too fast to let moisture get it my eyes or something.

And after this, my right eye becomes so tired that the vision is slightly worse(only momentarily, until it gets its moisture back; palming helps a lot). Because of this(or at least that's what I think, I can't seem to get any gradual, permanent improvements over the last couple months.

If anyone has any advice, comments, or suggestions as to what I can do, or shouldn't be doing, I would VERY much appreciate it. There's also probably some more information I can give regarding this but I didn't want a 4 page story on the first post.

Ben

P.S. One thing to not is that I do this at nighttime, about a couple hours before I go to bed, should I be doing them earlier in the day or does that not matter?

[JMartinC4]

It sounds to me like you've found the path back to normal eyesight.
Unfortunately it will probably take a couple of years for your visual system to catch up with where your current physical, mental, and spiritual/emotional systems are, development-wise.
Normal eyesight has one eye with slightly better vision and that eye is slightly dominant. Prescribed lenses usually bring both eyes to equal 20/20 vision, which is actually abnormal. Quit wearing them whenever safety is not a concern.
At this point the corneal fronts of your eyes are probably bulged, which is preventing you from maintaining the normal tearfilms. (As well as the incorrect blinking and breathing habits you've developed.)
They are probably bulged because the eyes are slightly misaligned and not pointed together most of the time.
Over time, the misalignment causes slight friction as well as double vision. The friction causes physical stress - leading to bulged/thickened corneas; the double vision causes mental stress leading to an overdominant better-visioned eye and orbital stress (eye muscles, brows, cheeks, etc.) as your visual system attempts to correct itself.
They are probably not quite bulged equally, either, making the process of redevelopment a little more difficult/disorienting.
So it's a triple whammy - the normal tearfilms are constantly being degraded, and when you temporarily manage to repair them, they still can't stay in place because of the bulging and stress and incorrect habits.
I found one method of gradually reducing the physical stress/strain is to frequently flood the eyes with cold clean tapwater (or other available clean water), especially every morning and night. My method is to lean over the sink and cup my hands as if I'm going to palm, fill them with water, and then cup/splash it into my eyes - as if I have a speck in them that I want to wash out. I also splash the water over my entire head and neck. When I towel off, I leave the eyes alone.
If I don't have any water, and my eyes are bugging me, I will actually use my own clean spittle to moisten them. My own spit is probably as close to tearfilm consistency as I can get, anyway.
The effect of this, combined with the Bates Methods, I believe has been to gradually reduce the orbital stress/strain as well as the corneal bulging, allowing the tearfilms to stay in place longer and longer, and actually retraining my visual system to replace the bulging/strain with more normal tearfilms and habits. It is a process of (re)development.
I knew for sure it was working when not only was my vision developing longer and longer instances of clear flashing and control over that flashing, but people such as my wife and coworkers began to occasionally comment that my eyes looked 'wet' or 'glassy' - yet to me they felt normal. Because they are becoming normal.

[Nini]

Your experience reminds me the 3 point exercise of 'eorama'.
Here the author insists, that you should not blink after focussing a point for some seconds; during this time your sight will remain very clear. Once you blink, the clear vision is gone:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.eorama.com/en/3_point_exercise.html">http://www.eorama.com/en/3_point_exercise.html</a><!-- m -->

But nevertheless your vision will improve when you continue to practice this exercise and after some time the temporary clear sight (he calls it 'alpha phase') will become a permanent state ('beta phase'):
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.eorama.com/en/alpha_beta.html">http://www.eorama.com/en/alpha_beta.html</a><!-- m -->

[arocarty]

Hello Ben, and welcome. Just had a couple quick questions -

- when did you first start needing glasses, and how long have you worn them?
- are you nearsighted, farsighted? How much, roughly ?
- how much do you wear your glasses now?
- how are you gauging and/or measuring your visual acuity now?

Andrew

[Ben]

JMartin, quick question, do you do the water/saliva on the eyelids or directly on the opened eyes?

Nini, thank you for the links, I haven't practiced them yet but I have noticed that when I close my eyes for awhile, my vision is better, until that cursed blink. But I would like to note that I do from time to time get clear flashes on occasion. Not everyday, but at least it's a start.

Andrew,
-This may surprise you but I initially got glasses about 5 years ago, HOWEVER, I didn't wear them nearly at all. I got them because my older brother did and we got some deal with a 2-person package; it wasn't really a necessity. I only rarely used them for seeing school projectors, driving when it was raining or sometimes at night, but I always got a headache. So about the last 2 years, I haven't worn them at all. So in short, I have probably had literally 40-50 hours of glasses time in my life.
-I am nearsighted, with perfect sight at 16 in., in even in my right eye.
-Using a snellen eye chart on printed paper that I printed off at home, I stood at 20 feet, with a well-lit hallway and my left eye is roughly 20/40 to 20/50, depending on the day, which is why I never wear my glasses because it isn't an issue at all to see on a regular basis. My right eye is about 20/90 to 20/100, a lot weaker.

Thanks for all the prompt replies, I really appreciate the help.

Edit: Quick question though for anyone, Nini's link said to not use the same distance all the time when practicing. I am always using the eye chart in my room to do these(about 10 ft. away), should I switch it up? or make it closer/farther and vary it?

Ben

[Nini]

Nini's link said to not use the same distance all the time when practicing. I am always using the eye chart in my room to do these(about 10 ft. away), should I switch it up? or make it closer/farther and vary it?

Ben, the 3 point exercise does not use the eye chart at all, but 3 objects with sharp contours in diffent distances - to practice focussing at different distances.
The author recommends not to practice with writings since the letters won't clear up during the few seconds you should look at at them; better take simple and clearly structured objects.

Practicing with the eye chart is a differnt approach, but you can try both methods.

[JMartinC4]

JMartin, quick question, do you do the water/saliva on the eyelids or directly on the opened eyes?
Nini, thank you for the links, I haven't practiced them yet but I have noticed that when I close my eyes for awhile, my vision is better, until that cursed blink. But I would like to note that I do from time to time get clear flashes on occasion. Not everyday, but at least it's a start....
-Using a snellen eye chart on printed paper that I printed off at home, I stood at 20 feet, with a well-lit hallway and my left eye is roughly 20/40 to 20/50, depending on the day, which is why I never wear my glasses because it isn't an issue at all to see on a regular basis. My right eye is about 20/90 to 20/100, a lot weaker.
Edit: Quick question though for anyone, Nini's link said to not use the same distance all the time when practicing. I am always using the eye chart in my room to do these(about 10 ft. away), should I switch it up? or make it closer/farther and vary it? Ben

Ben, the cold water is beneficial everywhere around the eyes/head/neck because cold is a well-known remedy for stress and strain. But especially directly onto the eyes - where it has temporary, training and biofeedback effects of reducing strain, shrinking the bulge, and moistening the eye/repairing the tearfilm. The clean saliva obviously is not going to be cold, but it is going to be closer to the consistency of the tearfilm than water, and it's always available. (Just onto the eyes and eyelids though - let's not go crazy!)
As for the Snellen distance, I would recommend you post additional Snellens at different distances and locations. Then you can use them while swinging/shifting to develop a comparison/calibration routine.

[arocarty]

Hi Ben,

If you develop negative association with blinking, which it seems is already happening, then you will risk creating for yourself another hurtle to overcome. You're likely to start the habit of suppressing your blinks, which leads to additional strain and an irritating dry-eye condition. I dealt with that issue for a number of years, I can relate to the frustration.

You will probably be hard pressed to get a satifactory answer as to why blinking ruins a clear flash. In one of Bates' Q&A sections of the BEM, someone asked him that same question, and he gave one of his patent terse answers - you're still maintaining an unconscious strain. Clear flashes are usually the beginning stages of vision improvement, and you should be very encouraged that you've done something right that brings you relief from your tension and strain. Your focus should be on what got you there, what brings relief, and how can you keep repeating it, and let the results take care of themself.

Clear, or clearer vision is a very fragile state, especially for the recovering myope, as we've all had years of practice to perfect our bad habits and become expert in ruining normal sight. A blink displaces the eyeball slightly, downward and nasally, and also pushes it back into the globe slightly. There's a concurrent activation of the EO muscles with every blink, to not only recover from the displacement, which it does very accurately, but even preceding the eyelid
movement. Suffice it to say that there is a strong neural relationship between eyelid movement and eye movement. For whatever reason, the activation of the EO muscles during the blink is enough to disrupt this fragile state of clarity. With practice, gaining stronger relief and better mental control, it'll start to work more in your favor, rather than against it.

Some of the things that helped me overcome the issue, was to first keep reminding myself to blink all throughout the day, no matter the situation, even if my mind was telling me it might be a little excessive. Chances are, we've conditioned ourselves to much less than average blinking rates, and what we *think* is excessive, is really a more normal pattern. And when we need it the most, we've probably trained ourselves to think we need it the least. I worked a lot on coupling blinks with shifts. People with normal sight do this very naturally, and it is good on many levels. Start the blink just before you shift, so the eyes open just as you land on your next fixation point. A longer shift will naturally involve a slower blink, and shorter shift, a faster blink. Practice this with the longest to the shortest shifts, and in all directions. Couple blinking with a sway, or swing - Bates once gave an answer that he thought the most effective technique was swinging and blinking.

Closing your eyes seems to bring you some benefit; blinking is essentially the same thing, except of a much shorter duration. I found that slowing down my blinking a little helped give my eyes that little extra bit of relief, and actually started to help actuate clear flashes. By slowing down I mean I let them close for a half-second, and when possible, sometimes longer (the average blink is really a fraction of a second). This was very helpful in building a positive
association with blinking, rather than letting it persist in becomming a negative one.

The distance you choose from the chart is really a matter of personal preference - and having multiple ones as JMartin said is helpful, especially one you can look at from you perfect distance (16 in), then flash the others more in the distance. Your vision will also vary, so one day it might be good at 10 feet, the next better at 15, or 8. That's normal, don't get discouraged. Obviously the goal is to read the smallest print at the most distance, but it can be a gradual process, and you don't want to psyche yourself out because you haven't gained enough mental control, which is done at the optimal distances. The important thing to always keep in mind is that the Snellen is a Training Device, not a test. You're using it, along with the various techniques (shifting, swinging, central fixation, perfecting memory) to build visual acuity, not test it. Any object or objects can be used, but nothing can give the same granular,
accurate level of feedback as does good printed characters.

Best,
Andrew

[Ben]

Once again, thank you very much for all the replies.

I would like to note that during the day when I'm not practicing the Bates method, I do not get the dry/scratchy/burning eyes from the lack of blinking. I actually have been doing what you recommended Andrew, to blink more often(as best I can), even excessively, throughout the day. It's only when I am practicing with the eye chart that I get the dry eyes, probably because I'm subconsciously trying to keep my clear flash so I blink less and/or I do the really quick blinks that don't seem to hydrate my eyes enough.

Couple quick questions:
When I'm practicing, I've noticed that when I blink, I try to keep my eyes focused on what I was looking at just before the blink. In other words, let's say I'm looking at the top of the letter "J" on the eye chart. When I blink, I am trying to keep my eyes on the top of "J" after the blink as well. From what I'm gathering from your posts, should I NOT be doing that, but rather shifting to something else after the blink?

Finally, when I patch one eye with my hand(I'm not touching my eye, just cupping it, so that next to no light is seen), I've noticed that the vision in the other eye slightly dims, and even after removing the patch, the used-to-be-patched eye's vision is dimmed momentarily as well. But when I patch the eye(or rather block the vision of the eye) with a piece of white printer paper, the vision of the other eye doesn't dim, but may even brighten. Is this normal? Because the mind is translating both of the eye's image onto one optic nerve? I hope that makes sense...

Thanks again, as I'm sure I'll have more newbie questions for you all in the future.

Ben

[Ben]

A final third question to add(sorry I'm getting curious):

About often does a normal person blink? I've heard almost any possible answer.
Here: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.iblindness.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2147&start=30">viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2147&start=30</a><!-- l --> it says blinking every 10-12 seconds is normal and too little time between blinks(6 seconds or so) means you have dry eyes. David's main article says 5-10 seconds, and one of the audio files from <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bettereyesightnow.com">www.bettereyesightnow.com</a><!-- w --> says a person with normal vision blinks every 2-3 seconds. Just want to know.

Ben

[David]

The best thing to do is observe people. The answer is it varies between people and conditions.

This is part of the larger issue that you don't need to get anything perfect. There are lots of pretty incapable people out there with very good vision, and different people may appear to look around and look at things a little differently, all with good vision. When your vision is blurry, you're so far away from anything resembling good vision that improving the way you do things just a little can have a big effect. So don't worry about blinking with perfect timing, because there is no such thing. It's a range. Just concentrate on blinking a little better, as far as you know how.

[arocarty]

It's only when I am practicing with the eye chart that I get the dry eyes, probably because I'm subconsciously trying to keep my clear flash so I blink less and/or I do the really quick blinks that don't seem to hydrate my eyes enough.

Hi Ben,

Oh yes, as soon as we get in front of an eyechart, we can really take on a different mindset, and the hairy-stary myopic monster can instantly rear it's head. Shows how mental this is. Almost like the white-coat syndrome - I get in front of my doctor, and my blood pressure instantly shoots up by 20 - when it was just fine when the health assistant took it 10 minutes prior :-\

When I'm practicing, I've noticed that when I blink, I try to keep my eyes focused on what I was looking at just before the blink. In other words, let's say I'm looking at the top of the letter "J" on the eye chart. When I blink, I am trying to keep my eyes on the top of "J" after the blink as well. From what I'm gathering from your posts, should I NOT be doing that, but rather shifting to something else after the blink?

Whether you're blinking, or shifting, even remembering something with the eyes closed, you shouldn't try to keep your eyes locked on any point; let them go, let them move from point to point, wander around freely, easily. To try to keep them locked on any point is to tempt and fuel that myopic monster.

[JMartinC4]

Once again, thank you very much for all the replies. ...Finally, when I patch one eye with my hand(I'm not touching my eye, just cupping it, so that next to no light is seen), I've noticed that the vision in the other eye slightly dims, and even after removing the patch, the used-to-be-patched eye's vision is dimmed momentarily as well. But when I patch the eye(or rather block the vision of the eye) with a piece of white printer paper, the vision of the other eye doesn't dim, but may even brighten. Is this normal? Because the mind is translating both of the eye's image onto one optic nerve? I hope that makes sense... Thanks again, as I'm sure I'll have more newbie questions for you all in the future. Ben

Ben, have you ever heard of the optic chiasm? It is definitely worth knowing about. I highly recommend you do some research and think about all the things that have to happen for your visual system to see normally, clearly, continuously, while stationary and while moving. You could start by reading this entry (although there are many others):
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/430309/optic-chiasm">http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... tic-chiasm</a><!-- m -->

But one thing the entries usually omit or gloss over is that, although 50% of the retinal nerve fibers from each eye cross over to the opposite optic nerve at the optic chiasm, and the 50% constitute the entire nasal half of each retina, that nasal half does not contain any of the macula/fovea nerves, which are all on the temporal side of each retina.

It seems extremely important to me, for retraining the visual system to use the maculas/foveas for normal clear distance eyesight, especially while rotating the visual field, in order to maintain a binocular/stereoscopic image (and avoid double images).

[Ben]

Ben, have you ever heard of the optic chiasm? It is definitely worth knowing about. I highly recommend you do some research and think about all the things that have to happen for your visual system to see normally, clearly, continuously, while stationary and while moving. You could start by reading this entry (although there are many others):
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/430309/optic-chiasm">http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... tic-chiasm</a><!-- m -->

But one thing the entries usually omit or gloss over is that, although 50% of the retinal nerve fibers from each eye cross over to the opposite optic nerve at the optic chiasm, and the 50% constitute the entire nasal half of each retina, that nasal half does not contain any of the macula/fovea nerves, which are all on the temporal side of each retina.

It seems extremely important to me, for retraining the visual system to use the maculas/foveas for normal clear distance eyesight, especially while rotating the visual field, in order to maintain a binocular/stereoscopic image (and avoid double images).

Then would it be safe to say that when testing one eye(whether for optometrists when getting glasses, or just doing it at home), that the eye being tested is seeing slightly less clear because of the faint image we see from the patched eye? And also, when I spend extra time to practice my weaker eye by patching the stronger, that its always going to be slightly less clear than it actually is?

Again I really appreciate all the answers to the questions; this is a very helpful forum. I even got David in here!

Ben

[pawel86ck]

it says blinking every 10-12 seconds is normal and too little time between blinks(6 seconds or so) means you have dry eyes

these 8-12 seconds is ONLY a time when healthy lublricated eye can prolonge till your eye lids beg to close automaticly because of irritation. Healthy people blinks different in every situation and differently if they keep their attention on something. Generaly during sunny day people blink every 5-10 secconds. When they use their eyes under artificial light they need to strain more so they blink around every 3 seconds and many time every blink is multiplied by even 4 blinks (these 4 blinks are soo fast that you could even dont notice them. Generaly you cant do any harm by blinking more frequently, to be honest now I even dont think about blinking, I just unlearn controling my blinking and eyes know by themself how fast they should blink, dont think you know beter


When you throw away your glasses from higher dioptre (more than -2 dioptre) and see that clear flash shows up, you consciously want to prolonge that time. You learn to blink HARD, because this type of blinking makes your vision beter for couple of seconds. Real problem with this practice is... it must be repeated and it does very bad thing.. you see, this clearer vision was given by presure of your eyelids on your eyeball .... and when you open your eyes this tightening is left in place (you see beter but your eyesight will get worse in a long run because you straining). After that when you blink properly, easy and fast like normal people you will see that this clear image fade away... although improved vision is lost this is a GOOD SIGN, because this normal type of blinking relax your eyeball so they return to a normal shape.
When you start blinking easy and fast after hard blinking period like a normal people, you will quickly find that YOU CANT DO THAT FOR A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME...

I learned many things about straining because I attended vision restore course. I learn that when you get rid of your glasses you strain automaticly, some people who used instructors exercises still succed restoring their vision, like Andrei Petunin, but healing period is extended from one week (for one diopte) to one month for (just one dioptre).
So it shows simple thing, when you get rid of your glasses you strain allready and when you add hard blinking to it... its allmost impossible to go back to easy and light, unconsciously type of blinking, strain is soo big that only prolong type of blinking can bring you rest and most of the time you need to blink hard


So you need transition glasses (must be around -1.5 diopter weaker than your last prescriotion) that way you will not strain and your eyes will have space to improve, when you see good in these transition glasses switch to even weaker glasses, this time just -1 diopre weaker. I bought them from eyebuydirect and I payed 7 dolars for them !! its like nothing and I recived them in one week time. And my problem fade away it was still hard to go back to these light blinks but it was MUCH EASIER (I also yawn a lot, drink one boltle of mineral water peer day.. VERY IMPORTANT). Now I can blink super easy, I DONT EVEN FEEL MY BLINKS ALTHOUGH MY BLINKS ARE FULL , many times I can blink so FAST like 4 times in one second and my eyes feel relaxed all the day long... also when you blink light and gain NATURAL AND REAL IMPROVEMENT, this improvement will last when you blink againg Now when I blink hard, even once, I feel that and stop this ANOMALY right away because now I know how fuc**d up WEIRD WAY OF BLINKING IT WAS!!. Good that I contacted intructor because if I have done exactly as people at this site advised me to do I still would keep my eyes closed by half of the day, just to give my eyes rest, it was horrible experience.
So you need:
-transition glasses
-pure mineral water,
-ywaning
-light blinks (look how people blink, film stars etc)
BTW- dont use eyedrops with artificial tears, your eyes will unlearn to produce their own. In fact it is the best when you dont put ANYTHING into your eyes, even normal water.

People at this site dont want to wear any glasses, propably because most of them believe in bates BUT you can do what you like, I just told you what I know about that and whats helped me, I met people who restored their vision in one month from 4 diopters and they wear transition glasses, I saw for myself effect of that, here people are strugeling just to keep their eyes relaxed and even when they see that something must be wrong the still do nothing to change that because they believed soo much in his teaching ( bates ). All what can I advise, listen anyone theory but at the end THINK FOR YOURSELF and do what you think its best for you