Im 30 years old, male, since eleven I use glasses, I dont remember the diopters I started, but it was surely a low prescription, maybe aroud 2 diopters.
When I was a kid I didnt use glasses and was able to see the blackboard without problems.
Well, now my last prescription was 7,75 diopters, I made the glasses but I discover quickly it was overprescribed and had to continue using the old glasses, about 7,0 diopters. Thats when I found about Bates, and found this website, I read the books and started to aplly some relaxation, palming and few minutes without glasses.
In a month I,m now using 6,5 glases cause my 7,0 glasses are too strong to me. I purchased and Im waiting for a 5,75 glasses to continue improvemet. My improvement appears to be stucked right now.
Just to add some important information, last year some floaters appeared in my right eye (the worst eye) and my doctor send me into a retinal photo-coagulation, to prevent retinal detachment. After that I could not use contacts all day long as my eyes got irritated a lot, and I had to comeback to glasses. I dont have a clue why.
Thats the background, but my main worry right now is that I had never be able to induce a clear flash. Of course when I do palming, or Im totally relaxed, my vision improves a bit, but its far, very far away from being clear.
That worrys me a lot, cause reading Bates and Emily reports, those that were cured were able to have clear flashes and one day big improves at the Snellen just by relaxation. Im starting to think my eye shape is fucked up.
if i may....
it sounds like you have made progress. if you have not had 6/6 clear flashes, that is okay.... you have acknowledged that when you are relaxed your vision is improved.
Do not spend your time worrying about the shape of your eye. Focus on your progress. Focus on learning to relax.
jiminos Wrote:if i may....
it sounds like you have made progress. if you have not had 6/6 clear flashes, that is okay.... you have acknowledged that when you are relaxed your vision is improved.
Do not spend your time worrying about the shape of your eye. Focus on your progress. Focus on learning to relax.
Be well,
jim
Thanks for your reply Jim.
I definitively improved a bit my eye sight, since I cannot use my two last prescriptions. Makiing a simple test I realize this, looking 3 meters from a digital clock with the strong prescriptions, the numbers become distorted, but not in a myopic blurry way, its just seem too strong refraction. With the weak old prescription I can see the digital clock numbers sharply.
I know I should focus on recovering, but its not necessary to abandon thinking and knowledge to achieve that. I`m looking into an explanation about why I cant have clear flashes, if it was just by relaxing I should be able to view things sharply at distance somtimes, after palming for instance. And knowing that high myopes have large eye balls, knowing I had use glasses for 19 years(I m straining my eyes in a wrong way 19 years). All this together makes a very good discussion, for the high myopes even more important.
Any evidence, even personal evidence or theories are welcome.
i am not sure if this qualifies as evidence, but you are welcome to look at my post in success stories...
I wore glasses for about 40 years... my prescription was never as strong as your prescription. There are others here on the boards that had prescriptions such as yours and have recovered completely. Nancy and Sorisi (i probably spelled her name wrong) are two that come to mind... oh, and Clark .... and I know there are others.
I found that the harder I worked at recovering/improving my vision, the slower my progress. Remember, not everybody that Bates saw had immediate recovery. Many did, but not all. I suspect he wrote the more spectacular successes to emphasize that recovery is possible. I cannot say with certainty, but I doubt that he wrote about the average recoveries.
Most important is this... do not force your recovery. Perhaps you will have clear flashes soon, perhaps not. With or without clear flashes, monitor and measure your visual acuity progress. Therein lies your personal success story.
jiminos Wrote:i am not sure if this qualifies as evidence, but you are welcome to look at my post in success stories...
I wore glasses for about 40 years... my prescription was never as strong as your prescription. There are others here on the boards that had prescriptions such as yours and have recovered completely. Nancy and Sorisi (i probably spelled her name wrong) are two that come to mind... oh, and Clark .... and I know there are others.
I found that the harder I worked at recovering/improving my vision, the slower my progress. Remember, not everybody that Bates saw had immediate recovery. Many did, but not all. I suspect he wrote the more spectacular successes to emphasize that recovery is possible. I cannot say with certainty, but I doubt that he wrote about the average recoveries.
Most important is this... do not force your recovery. Perhaps you will have clear flashes soon, perhaps not. With or without clear flashes, monitor and measure your visual acuity progress. Therein lies your personal success story.
be well,
jim
Thank you very much Jim, I ll take a look at your success histories, its always helpfull and encouraging to see that is possible to achieve what we want and the medical system says its not possible.
Its a shame we dont have cases of myopia regression and eye ball measurement documented on science today. I know there are cases of myopia regression even without Bates knowledge, my mother is an example, but she had a bit more than 1 diopter.
lfernand Wrote:Thats the background, but my main worry right now is that I had never be able to induce a clear flash. Of course when I do palming, or Im totally relaxed, my vision improves a bit, but its far, very far away from being clear.
Hello Ifernand,
It is common for people who are starting out to fall into the trap of end-gaining. They are far more focused on the results than they are with the process. Little do they realize, that the results take care of themself, if the process is learned and applied correctly. When you learn to relax in a way that truly releases the tension and strains under which you are struggling, you literally can't help BUT to see better. If you relax the visual system partially, vision will improve, partially. If you relax it completely, vision can completely clear. It lasts as long as the relaxation is maintained. Everyone goes at their own pace, especially when self-learning. So do not look at it as a race, or compare yourself to the progress of anyone else.
Realize also that most chronic tensions and strains are of an unconscious nature. You are not conscious of them, you do not sense them. Higher myopes are even more numb to them. It is at the moment that they are released that we usually become conscious that we'd been carrying it around all that time. Long standing habits of staring, lack of shifting, lack of attending to detail, negative thought patterns and dwelling on our bad sight are vision wreckers. Don't dwell on why you 'can't' do this or that, focus on what you CAN do. It doesn't always come all at once, it usually comes gradually, as we change how we THINK about how we look at things. You may need to try out many things, but if you are to examine anything, examine why this or that DID work. We know why something didn't - because you continued to strain. Nothing deeper or more to figure out. Period. Just thinking about that strain can inhibit progress, so don't look back, just keep looking forward. When you experience your own improvement, you will feel little need for evidence outside the evidence of what you see through your own eyes. Nothing will change your beliefs and wash away your doubts more than your own personal experience.
Welcome and good luck. Don't be too shy to ask questions and for clarification when something doesn't make sense to you.
jiminos Wrote:i am not sure if this qualifies as evidence, but you are welcome to look at my post in success stories...
I wore glasses for about 40 years... my prescription was never as strong as your prescription. There are others here on the boards that had prescriptions such as yours and have recovered completely. Nancy and Sorisi (i probably spelled her name wrong) are two that come to mind... oh, and Clark .... and I know there are others.
I found that the harder I worked at recovering/improving my vision, the slower my progress. Remember, not everybody that Bates saw had immediate recovery. Many did, but not all. I suspect he wrote the more spectacular successes to emphasize that recovery is possible. I cannot say with certainty, but I doubt that he wrote about the average recoveries.
Most important is this... do not force your recovery. Perhaps you will have clear flashes soon, perhaps not. With or without clear flashes, monitor and measure your visual acuity progress. Therein lies your personal success story.
be well,
jim
"oh, and Clark ... and I know there are others." ; I (Clark) wore glasses in elementary school and high school and the army; each of these times only for a few days or less after being prescribed; just took the glasses off because they caused pain, more blur. The sight returns to clear when glasses are avoided. I was lucky; the teachers army Sargent allowed this. My critics say my vision was not that impaired so it was easy to get clear and others with more impairment may take longer getting clear. It depends on the person, how they use their eyes, emotions, mental strain, life experience, situation... Many factors. Some get clear fast. My teacher told me Janet Goodrich and another famous teacher had much vision impairment and it took them 2 years to see 20/20, but they got there.
lfernand Wrote:Thats the background, but my main worry right now is that I had never be able to induce a clear flash. Of course when I do palming, or Im totally relaxed, my vision improves a bit, but its far, very far away from being clear.
Hello Ifernand,
It is common for people who are starting out to fall into the trap of end-gaining. They are far more focused on the results than they are with the process. Little do they realize, that the results take care of themself, if the process is learned and applied correctly. When you learn to relax in a way that truly releases the tension and strains under which you are struggling, you literally can't help BUT to see better. If you relax the visual system partially, vision will improve, partially. If you relax it completely, vision can completely clear. It lasts as long as the relaxation is maintained. Everyone goes at their own pace, especially when self-learning. So do not look at it as a race, or compare yourself to the progress of anyone else.
Realize also that most chronic tensions and strains are of an unconscious nature. You are not conscious of them, you do not sense them. Higher myopes are even more numb to them. It is at the moment that they are released that we usually become conscious that we'd been carrying it around all that time. Long standing habits of staring, lack of shifting, lack of attending to detail, negative thought patterns and dwelling on our bad sight are vision wreckers. Don't dwell on why you 'can't' do this or that, focus on what you CAN do. It doesn't always come all at once, it usually comes gradually, as we change how we THINK about how we look at things. You may need to try out many things, but if you are to examine anything, examine why this or that DID work. We know why something didn't - because you continued to strain. Nothing deeper or more to figure out. Period. Just thinking about that strain can inhibit progress, so don't look back, just keep looking forward. When you experience your own improvement, you will feel little need for evidence outside the evidence of what you see through your own eyes. Nothing will change your beliefs and wash away your doubts more than your own personal experience.
Welcome and good luck. Don't be too shy to ask questions and for clarification when something doesn't make sense to you.
I understand what do you mean.
But I disagree at one point, when you palm you reach relaxation of the eye external muscles, and your vision improves a bit, but not sufficient to give you perfect visio (at least in my case), that doesnt mean you are straining. I think its not all about straining, straining is the cause of eye elongation, but once elongation take place you can relax completely and the image will continue to form in front of retina. Thats why Im not able to produce a clear flash.
Now speaking to every one on this forum, I think each person is different, I believe in Bates system but I dont necessarily believe I can reach total recovery, partial recovery I already experienced. I dont know if total recovery is possible, I dont even know half-recovery is possible, in my case of course. But that has nothing to do with my trainning and my relaxation techniques. According to Bates relaxation and focus exercices (swing, snellen...) are all you need (take off glasses too). You dont need to be a religious believer to improve. I think we should discuss more on the subject and less on the motivation itself. But thats just my opnion.
lfernand Wrote:But I disagree at one point, when you palm you reach relaxation of the eye external muscles, and your vision improves a bit, but not sufficient to give you perfect visio (at least in my case), that doesnt mean you are straining. I think its not all about straining, straining is the cause of eye elongation, but once elongation take place you can relax completely and the image will continue to form in front of retina. Thats why Im not able to produce a clear flash.
How do you know, for sure, that you are totally relaxed when palming? Very few people can do it effectively at the start, and in fact, some people strain more when palming. And since strain and tension is usually of an unconscious nature, under the radar and out of the reach of our immediate senses, we often cannot tell with eyes closed or covered the degree to which we still maintain it. One may 'think' they are totally relaxed, but then that's the state that they have become so used to it has become their 'new normal.' Wrong becomes right, and right will often feel just wrong.
Keep trying things, be pesistent. Keep asking "what can I do different, how can I approach this differently, because this or that obviously didn't help.' It can take a lot to discover and uncover things you are not conscious of. And the the way you approach it can have a lot to do with making progress.
lfernand Wrote:But I disagree at one point, when you palm you reach relaxation of the eye external muscles, and your vision improves a bit, but not sufficient to give you perfect visio (at least in my case), that doesnt mean you are straining. I think its not all about straining, straining is the cause of eye elongation, but once elongation take place you can relax completely and the image will continue to form in front of retina. Thats why Im not able to produce a clear flash.
How do you know, for sure, that you are totally relaxed when palming? Very few people can do it effectively at the start, and in fact, some people strain more when palming. And since strain and tension is usually of an unconscious nature, under the radar and out of the reach of our immediate senses, we often cannot tell with eyes closed or covered the degree to which we still maintain it. One may 'think' they are totally relaxed, but then that's the state that they have become so used to it has become their 'new normal.' Wrong becomes right, and right will often feel just wrong.
Keep trying things, be pesistent. Keep asking "what can I do different, how can I approach this differently, because this or that obviously didn't help.' It can take a lot to discover and uncover things you are not conscious of. And the the way you approach it can have a lot to do with making progress.
Regards,
Andrew
Thanks for answering arocarty.
I agree with you, tension sometimes can be unconscious, but we do have control of the external muscles of the eyes. Its a controversial subject.
Im pretty stuck right now, I feel all the relaxing and methods I do are lost when I put my strong 7 diopters glasses on, I have 6,5 sun glasses wich I cannot use unless outside at sun light. Im waiting the 5,75 prescription I bought on internet. Lets see if my initial progress will continue after using this reduced prescription.
Im giving up this clear flash thing, it seems its not possible to me.
My reduced prescription glasses arrived. Im using now a minus 5,75 diopters, its a little bit blurry as expected, but sufficient to read and seeing TV.
On the sun light -6,5 diopters makes all sharp to me, but at night even a -7 prescription is not sufficient to make things sharp.
I`ve reading the success cases you guys suggest, I m not saying these cases are bogus, but Nancy, David, clark night and Sorrisi are Bates teachers, or sell stuff about Bates. And Sorrisi claims to have reduced almost fully her prescription but still use -6 diopters glasses when needed, that does not fit with a real recover.
Im sorry but those who have financial advantages with Bates are not good examples. Its not they are bad people, its simply I cant know for sure.
you could read about Meier Schneider (not sure i spelled it correctly.) his story is amazing.... and verifiable. he went from legally blind to having a no-restrictions driver's license.
as a result of his recovery, he has spent his life helping others, so he has a financial stake in people accepting Bates, but.... he became a teacher AFTER his recovery, not before, not during.
beyond that, there are many examples of people with varying degrees of success. i guess it depends on your mindset. if you believe you can recover, you greatly enhance the chances of it happening. if you do not believe, or have doubts, you diminish your odds. the recovery of your vision is your very own, very personal journey. you must make the choices. you must do the work. you must believe or not believe. you must succeed or fail. no other can do any of these things for you.
keep an open mind... keep your eyes open... and be amazed.... your perfect vision is right there waiting for you. be. see.
jiminos Wrote:you could read about Meier Schneider (not sure i spelled it correctly.) his story is amazing.... and verifiable. he went from legally blind to having a no-restrictions driver's license.
as a result of his recovery, he has spent his life helping others, so he has a financial stake in people accepting Bates, but.... he became a teacher AFTER his recovery, not before, not during.
beyond that, there are many examples of people with varying degrees of success. i guess it depends on your mindset. if you believe you can recover, you greatly enhance the chances of it happening. if you do not believe, or have doubts, you diminish your odds. the recovery of your vision is your very own, very personal journey. you must make the choices. you must do the work. you must believe or not believe. you must succeed or fail. no other can do any of these things for you.
keep an open mind... keep your eyes open... and be amazed.... your perfect vision is right there waiting for you. be. see.
be well,
jim
I have seen a part of an interview by Meier Schneider, although he didnt comment about Bates he said we have thousands of muscles in the body but only use a few of then and nearly all body pains can be overcome using this knowledge. I was not impressed, his story may be verifiable by someone who lives nearby him, not by me. But explaining my skepticism, I dont want to make judgment about anybody, I just dont trust what a seller says about his own product.
I believe in Bates system, Im just collecting as much information as possible to help me on my recovery, and high myopia recoveries would be very important to my specific case. My primary goal is to stop the refraction increase that leads to cataract, retinal detachment, and other serious diseases. My secondary goal is slightly reducing the refraction using reduced prescriptions and practicing the eye relaxation techniques. The final goal would be doing all daily stuff without glasses, lets hope I ll be able to achieve that.
I believe what Bates said, its not a matter of faith that will lead to recover, its the understanding of the principles involved. But I understand you are talking about the direct consequences of believing, that is, the way you managed the recover process depends on believing. But believe in me, I believe. ;D Thanks for your attention Jiminos.
Im now using the -5,75 prescription for a couple hours and Im seeing far better that when I put it on, it looks like theres a rapid focus reorganization while on glasses.
Remember my last prescription was almost 8 diopters and thats impossible to put then on after 2 months of reducd prescription. That is pretty good.
Strong glasses cause detached retina. I can only give advice due to teaching a lot of people;
The people that have advanced eye problems, stronger glasses must stop using all glasses, including magnifiers. Even reduced, weaker lenses are unhealthy for these people. So far you seem lucky, your doctor has stopped the retina from being harmed.
I have a student that had greatly improved his vision, cured blindness with the Bates method and healed many eye health problems. Also a lady.
Both were talked into going back to wearing glasses by their eye doctors and stronger glasses were prescribed.
Both ended up with bleeding retinas, blindness and partial blindness. One recovered by stopping use of glasses. The other is still blind and is now staying away from glasses, hoping for recovery.
