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Newbie with very strong myopia but also hope, guts and sucess
#1
Hi everybody,

I just stumbled over Todd Becker's fabolous youtube-talk about myopia and how to reverse it. That's why I joined here. I have a long, long story to tell with many different aspects and challenges, therefore I'll keep it short and somewhat structured.

I. My background

28 year old german male
got my first glasses with about six years old (don't know the diopters then, maybe -1.5 ?), progressed over the years to the current myopia of almost -12.0 on both eyes, the right glass is a little bit stronger. Although I haven't had my eyes examined for several years know, my estimate would be that I needed about -11.0 (left) and -11.5 (right) to be at 20/20 vision. BTW: 20/20 vision doesn't exist for me anymore not even in my memory. No combination of glasses and/or contact lenses could correct me 100% anymore. And even if ... after a very little time the whole process starts again - slight blur, stronger blur, new glasses, repeat. Been there, done that.
I'm a stutterer since early childhood (maybe that could be an underlying cause for my bad vision) and I suffer from other symptoms and problems such as porn addiction and a slight rounded and hollow back. Needless to say, I have a certain amount of depression, social anxiety, problems to make decisions and to "get my shit together"
I have a university degree and work on the computer for at least 8h each day (I have weaker prescription for the work on the computer)

II. My experience and success so far

discovered vision training a couple of years ago, got some books and began to practice, but I always felt something was lacking. And that something was a structured plan with clear behavioural guidelines. Good vision habits, a few exercises here and there and a "morning workout" and "evening workout" all fine and necessary but the key questions for me have always been: (1) how to progress objectively and reliable (2) how to deal with the existing dependency on glasses and especially contact lenses ?
My exercises and methods in a nutshell: palming, focusing exercises, swings, mediation, eye rolls, certain stretching and bioenergetic exercises, cold/hot water therapy, outlining objects with my nose/looking at details, blinking exercises, not wearing glasses/contacts whenever I can, intermittent fasting, ice cold showers, looking into the distance often, certain "superfoods" etc.
My success so far:

Many flashes of (dramatically) improved vision. Granted, not 20/20 but very encouraging nonetheless. Unfortunately the clear/er flashes only last a couple of moments, usually till the next blink and they improved just a bit over the last months and year.
Anyway: flashes of improved vision are as common for me nowadays as is breathing IF I stick to the exercises and good vision habits and that alone is motivation enough. And get this: with my amount of myopia I'm not supposed to see road signs or small details or car brands or leaves on trees or to read without glasses/contacts an arm-length away from me but I do all these things because I worked up to a level that I CAN see all that. And I'm sure that this is not the end but just the beginning. I'll never give up ! Ever.

Vision hasn't worsened dramatically in years, despite a stressful job and long hours on the computer. Remember: my vision got worse nearly every year by at least 0.5.

Astigmatism seemed to be gone at the last eye examination

III. My questions/concerns

I'd like to incorporate more print pushing into my daily programm(s). I can read without glasses and contact lenses but I have to held the book very close, depending on the weather (a bright sunny day is always best, of course, as everything is well lit). Sometimes I have to held the book so close in front of me that I start to cross eye but that's rather an exception. Not so exceptional is that I have the impression that one eye does more of the work, as I'm so close to the book.
As I wrote above, I can read an arm-length away if I'm in good shape, have a well lit room and maybe a good flash. But I understand that for print pushing you've to be in the "just ge
tting blurry" range.
Mr. Becker says in his video, that you should do two to four hours of print pushing every day. Well, I tried it a couple of times in the last week for about five to ten minutes and I hadn't the impression that it really helped that much. On the contrary, I'm worrying that the excess fosus on a very short distance might even worsen my condition, especially if I'm doing it for two to four hours each day.
As a matter of fact, in my current situation I can't really do two to four hours print pushing each day. Maybe if I would reduce my vision training and all the other methods just to print pushing but I don't think that would be a good solution. So I have to find a way to INCORPORATE it into my normal activities and routines, maybe even at work.
It's a little bit catch 22, to be honest cause I'm more or less dependent on glasses/contact lenses for working in the office. That means even if I did print pushing as Todd suggested I'd still had to find a way to incorporate it in my daily work day or even practising print pushing during work. Otherwise all my efforts seem to be doomed to fail since I'd destroy all my progress with the long computer hours.
Maybe I could try to place the computer further and further away and then switch to weaker prescription and start again.
It would be a somewhat similar approach that Ho from Vietnam (mentioned here before a couple of times) used with remarkable results.

Any suggestions or tipps for that ? Any other comments, ideas, thoughts ?

Thanks in advance and all the best !

HansGrafe
Reply
#2
(08-26-2015, 12:32 PM)HansGrafe Wrote: Hi everybody,

I just stumbled over Todd Becker's fabolous youtube-talk about myopia and how to reverse it. That's why I joined here. I have a long, long story to tell with many different aspects and challenges, therefore I'll keep it short and somewhat structured.

I. My background

28 year old german male
got my first glasses with about six years old (don't know the diopters then, maybe -1.5 ?), progressed over the years to the current myopia of almost -12.0 on both eyes, the right glass is a little bit stronger. Although I haven't had my eyes examined for several years know, my estimate would be that I needed about -11.0 (left) and -11.5 (right) to be at 20/20 vision. BTW: 20/20 vision doesn't exist for me anymore not even in my memory. No combination of glasses and/or contact lenses could correct me 100% anymore. And even if ... after a very little time the whole process starts again - slight blur, stronger blur, new glasses, repeat. Been there, done that.
I'm a stutterer since early childhood (maybe that could be an underlying cause for my bad vision) and I suffer from other symptoms and problems such as porn addiction and a slight rounded and hollow back. Needless to say, I have a certain amount of depression, social anxiety, problems to make decisions and to "get my shit together"
I have a university degree and work on the computer for at least 8h each day (I have weaker prescription for the work on the computer)

II. My experience and success so far

discovered vision training a couple of years ago, got some books and began to practice, but I always felt something was lacking. And that something was a structured plan with clear behavioural guidelines. Good vision habits, a few exercises here and there and a "morning workout" and "evening workout" all fine and necessary but the key questions for me have always been: (1) how to progress objectively and reliable (2) how to deal with the existing dependency on glasses and especially contact lenses ?
My exercises and methods in a nutshell: palming, focusing exercises, swings, mediation, eye rolls, certain stretching and bioenergetic exercises, cold/hot water therapy, outlining objects with my nose/looking at details, blinking exercises, not wearing glasses/contacts whenever I can, intermittent fasting, ice cold showers, looking into the distance often, certain "superfoods" etc.
My success so far:

Many flashes of (dramatically) improved vision. Granted, not 20/20 but very encouraging nonetheless. Unfortunately the clear/er flashes only last a couple of moments, usually till the next blink and they improved just a bit over the last months and year.
Anyway: flashes of improved vision are as common for me nowadays as is breathing IF I stick to the exercises and good vision habits and that alone is motivation enough. And get this: with my amount of myopia I'm not supposed to see road signs or small details or car brands or leaves on trees or to read without glasses/contacts an arm-length away from me but I do all these things because I worked up to a level that I CAN see all that. And I'm sure that this is not the end but just the beginning. I'll never give up ! Ever.

Vision hasn't worsened dramatically in years, despite a stressful job and long hours on the computer. Remember: my vision got worse nearly every year by at least 0.5.

Astigmatism seemed to be gone at the last eye examination

III. My questions/concerns

I'd like to incorporate more print pushing into my daily programm(s). I can read without glasses and contact lenses but I have to held the book very close, depending on the weather (a bright sunny day is always best, of course, as everything is well lit). Sometimes I have to held the book so close in front of me that I start to cross eye but that's rather an exception. Not so exceptional is that I have the impression that one eye does more of the work, as I'm so close to the book.
As I wrote above, I can read an arm-length away if I'm in good shape, have a well lit room and maybe a good flash. But I understand that for print pushing you've to be in the "just ge
tting blurry" range.
Mr. Becker says in his video, that you should do two to four hours of print pushing every day. Well, I tried it a couple of times in the last week for about five to ten minutes and I hadn't the impression that it really helped that much. On the contrary, I'm worrying that the excess fosus on a very short distance might even worsen my condition, especially if I'm doing it for two to four hours each day.
As a matter of fact, in my current situation I can't really do two to four hours print pushing each day. Maybe if I would reduce my vision training and all the other methods just to print pushing but I don't think that would be a good solution. So I have to find a way to INCORPORATE it into my normal activities and routines, maybe even at work.
It's a little bit catch 22, to be honest cause I'm more or less dependent on glasses/contact lenses for working in the office. That means even if I did print pushing as Todd suggested I'd still had to find a way to incorporate it in my daily work day or even practising print pushing during work. Otherwise all my efforts seem to be doomed to fail since I'd destroy all my progress with the long computer hours.
Maybe I could try to place the computer further and further away and then switch to weaker prescription and start again.
It would be a somewhat similar approach that Ho from Vietnam (mentioned here before a couple of times) used with remarkable results.

Any suggestions or tipps for that ? Any other comments, ideas, thoughts ?

Thanks in advance and all the best !

HansGrafe

Hi HansGrafe,

Welcome, thank you for sharing your experience, sounds like you have been at this for some time already, and have seen that poor vision does not have to be the permanent fate that we are raised or taught to believe. This site is based strongly on the Bates method, and does not support plus lens theories, or the 'edge of blur' as advocated on other sites. Be wary of methods out there that claiim to be scientifically based, or look good on paper, sound sooo logical, as it can lead you on all kinds tangents, and never address the root of the problem. In the Bates school of thought, that is mental strain, a loss of mental control, and loss of the proper functional aspects of normal sight. No need to add to your mental strain, you're already straining enough! I struggled the first few years, trying everything under the sun I could find, thinking I could 'strengthen' my eyes, and all kinds of nutty exercises, only to find that nothing helped maintain better sight except relaxing the mind and visual system, and learning how to maintain that through good vision habits. Once I realized that, it did not matter that I used my eyes at the nearpoint for 8 hours a day or more on computers. It did not lead to worse vision, only to better and better. We all fumble for the first few years, trying this or that, and you may want to especially read Nancy's story, as she had a very strong prescription like you, and made incredible improvement.
Using weaker lenses may be the only thing you can realistically do and maintain good job performance, but realize that slightly weaker lenses only allow us to release a small increment of strain, and maintain and reinforce the rest. That's one of the reasons those clear(er) flashes are so fleeting. It may be good to start studying and exploring the mental aspects of vision - memory, and imagination as explained by Bates, and keep addressing the functional aspects as advocated by David, for shifting, central fixation. There is no set formula for these things, we all have to more or less find what works best for us, and keep at it. Your persistance and determination will pay off in the long run.
Reply
#3
(08-27-2015, 04:12 AM)arocarty Wrote:
(08-26-2015, 12:32 PM)HansGrafe Wrote: Hi everybody,

I just stumbled over Todd Becker's fabolous youtube-talk about myopia and how to reverse it. That's why I joined here. I have a long, long story to tell with many different aspects and challenges, therefore I'll keep it short and somewhat structured.

I. My background

28 year old german male
got my first glasses with about six years old (don't know the diopters then, maybe -1.5 ?), progressed over the years to the current myopia of almost -12.0 on both eyes, the right glass is a little bit stronger. Although I haven't had my eyes examined for several years know, my estimate would be that I needed about -11.0 (left) and -11.5 (right) to be at 20/20 vision. BTW: 20/20 vision doesn't exist for me anymore not even in my memory. No combination of glasses and/or contact lenses could correct me 100% anymore. And even if ... after a very little time the whole process starts again - slight blur, stronger blur, new glasses, repeat. Been there, done that.
I'm a stutterer since early childhood (maybe that could be an underlying cause for my bad vision) and I suffer from other symptoms and problems such as porn addiction and a slight rounded and hollow back. Needless to say, I have a certain amount of depression, social anxiety, problems to make decisions and to "get my shit together"
I have a university degree and work on the computer for at least 8h each day (I have weaker prescription for the work on the computer)

II. My experience and success so far

discovered vision training a couple of years ago, got some books and began to practice, but I always felt something was lacking. And that something was a structured plan with clear behavioural guidelines. Good vision habits, a few exercises here and there and a "morning workout" and "evening workout" all fine and necessary but the key questions for me have always been: (1) how to progress objectively and reliable (2) how to deal with the existing dependency on glasses and especially contact lenses ?
My exercises and methods in a nutshell: palming, focusing exercises, swings, mediation, eye rolls, certain stretching and bioenergetic exercises, cold/hot water therapy, outlining objects with my nose/looking at details, blinking exercises, not wearing glasses/contacts whenever I can, intermittent fasting, ice cold showers, looking into the distance often, certain "superfoods" etc.
My success so far:

Many flashes of (dramatically) improved vision. Granted, not 20/20 but very encouraging nonetheless. Unfortunately the clear/er flashes only last a couple of moments, usually till the next blink and they improved just a bit over the last months and year.
Anyway: flashes of improved vision are as common for me nowadays as is breathing IF I stick to the exercises and good vision habits and that alone is motivation enough. And get this: with my amount of myopia I'm not supposed to see road signs or small details or car brands or leaves on trees or to read without glasses/contacts an arm-length away from me but I do all these things because I worked up to a level that I CAN see all that. And I'm sure that this is not the end but just the beginning. I'll never give up ! Ever.

Vision hasn't worsened dramatically in years, despite a stressful job and long hours on the computer. Remember: my vision got worse nearly every year by at least 0.5.

Astigmatism seemed to be gone at the last eye examination

III. My questions/concerns

I'd like to incorporate more print pushing into my daily programm(s). I can read without glasses and contact lenses but I have to held the book very close, depending on the weather (a bright sunny day is always best, of course, as everything is well lit). Sometimes I have to held the book so close in front of me that I start to cross eye but that's rather an exception. Not so exceptional is that I have the impression that one eye does more of the work, as I'm so close to the book.
As I wrote above, I can read an arm-length away if I'm in good shape, have a well lit room and maybe a good flash. But I understand that for print pushing you've to be in the "just ge
tting blurry" range.
Mr. Becker says in his video, that you should do two to four hours of print pushing every day. Well, I tried it a couple of times in the last week for about five to ten minutes and I hadn't the impression that it really helped that much. On the contrary, I'm worrying that the excess fosus on a very short distance might even worsen my condition, especially if I'm doing it for two to four hours each day.
As a matter of fact, in my current situation I can't really do two to four hours print pushing each day. Maybe if I would reduce my vision training and all the other methods just to print pushing but I don't think that would be a good solution. So I have to find a way to INCORPORATE it into my normal activities and routines, maybe even at work.
It's a little bit catch 22, to be honest cause I'm more or less dependent on glasses/contact lenses for working in the office. That means even if I did print pushing as Todd suggested I'd still had to find a way to incorporate it in my daily work day or even practising print pushing during work. Otherwise all my efforts seem to be doomed to fail since I'd destroy all my progress with the long computer hours.
Maybe I could try to place the computer further and further away and then switch to weaker prescription and start again.
It would be a somewhat similar approach that Ho from Vietnam (mentioned here before a couple of times) used with remarkable results.

Any suggestions or tipps for that ? Any other comments, ideas, thoughts ?

Thanks in advance and all the best !

HansGrafe

Hi HansGrafe,

Welcome, thank you for sharing your experience, sounds like you have been at this for some time already, and have seen that poor vision does not have to be the permanent fate that we are raised or taught to believe. This site is based strongly on the Bates method, and does not support plus lens theories, or the 'edge of blur' as advocated on other sites. Be wary of methods out there that claiim to be scientifically based, or look good on paper, sound sooo logical, as it can lead you on all kinds tangents, and never address the root of the problem. In the Bates school of thought, that is mental strain, a loss of mental control, and loss of the proper functional aspects of normal sight. No need to add to your mental strain, you're already straining enough! I struggled the first few years, trying everything under the sun I could find, thinking I could 'strengthen' my eyes, and all kinds of nutty exercises, only to find that nothing helped maintain better sight except relaxing the mind and visual system, and learning how to maintain that through good vision habits. Once I realized that, it did not matter that I used my eyes at the nearpoint for 8 hours a day or more on computers. It did not lead to worse vision, only to better and better. We all fumble for the first few years, trying this or that, and you may want to especially read Nancy's story, as she had a very strong prescription like you, and made incredible improvement.
Using weaker lenses may be the only thing you can realistically do and maintain good job performance, but realize that slightly weaker lenses only allow us to release a small increment of strain, and maintain and reinforce the rest. That's one of the reasons those clear(er) flashes are so fleeting. It may be good to start studying and exploring the mental aspects of vision - memory, and imagination as explained by Bates, and keep addressing the functional aspects as advocated by David, for shifting, central fixation. There is no set formula for these things, we all have to more or less find what works best for us, and keep at it. Your persistance and determination will pay off in the long run.

Yes, welcome! You've done a lot on your own already, and just knowing that vision improvement is possible, because you've seen it for yourself, will keep you going. As Arocarty says I got glasses at age 5 and progressed rapidly to a -10. I did "vision improvement" for years in a fumbling way
before I directly addressed my high level of anxiety. If it feels like a strain, like print pushing, don't do it! When you're not at the computer I'd spend time outdoors without glasses, letting your eyes explore the various distances, and colors, and depths. Use the weakest prescription you can to do your work, again WITHOUT STRAIN. That's the golden principle: do not strain!

I can hear the Germanic determination in your words, which I relate to and appreciate as I have German heritage too. But don't forget to have fun with vision improvement. This may be the grandest adventure you've ever taken -- it certainly has been for me. Make sure you enjoy it!

Hans, here's an overview of what I've done for my own vision. Something here may be useful to you. Since I wrote this, I'm spending time with the eye chart more regularly, and also walking outside after dark (we do have street lights here) most nights. https://dreamersight.wordpress.com/2011/...provement/
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#4
Hello Hans. If whatever you are doing is working, keep doing it. If not, stop doing it and reassess. My opnion is a lot of stuff works for the first 1-2 diopters of vision improvement. Then you hit a wall and you really have to know what you are doing to go further.

Once you eliminate the first 1-2 diopters, I think you'll find from your own experience spending that much time pushing print isn't the answer. And you'll realize that to pull out your blur point, it's much better to use extreme distancecs than edge of blurpoint close up distances.

I'm curious what your current refractive error is, if you hit a temporary wall at -9 or so since you are coming back from -11.
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