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Getting to grips with Bates method

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Getting to grips with Bates method
#1
Hi all

I am not having my luck with this forum. I posted a question about shifting in another post and had no response.

Anyway, I am trying to get to grips with the method - which if I am correct is simply that to obtain better eyesight wemust relax the eyes and not wear our glasses. To relax the eyes you basic palm as much as possible, or do the swing  exercises.

The central fixation I am also confused. The business of looking at something and looking away to see that I can see it worse. When I look away from it I do not see it, because I am not looking away, even if only a few inches.

Am I also correct in thinking that the idea is also to try and look at things in incredibly small steps, like scanning the ojbect from top to bottom instead of just taking the whole thing?

I have read Bates book, but seeing that I am less than 1/200 its hard to either see or read full stop. I have tobe about 6 inches from anything before it is clear.

Vobes
Reply
#2
Hi Vobes,

It's all basically a matter of learning to use your eyes in a way that's a lot easier and where you have to put much, much less effort into seeing, which results in your eyes focusing correctly.

Actually I was going to reply to your other post on shifting but forgot about it. I'll do it now.
http://www.iblindness.org/forum/index.ph...,48.0.html

David
Site Administrator

"Half of our funny, heathen lives, we are bent double to gather things we have tossed away." - George Meredith
Reply
#3
Cheers Dave - i will go and have a look at the answer to my shifting question.

When everything is a total blur it is very hard to get to grips with seeing anywhere near correctly. And of course at night time everyhting is even worse.

I obviously have to use my glasses for some things else I would just literally bump into things!

Vobes
Reply
#4
Dear Vobes,

Subject: Some technical help.

This is to not "argue" but to clarify.

If you can see clearly at 6 inches, your "prescription"
is probably about -6.5 diopters.

The Snellen is normally measured at 20 feet.
Thus the value of visual acuity is 20/XX.

Thus if you have high-quality vision (sometimes
called "perfect" it is 20/20.)

The typical value of the Snellen for a -6.5 diopters
eye is about 70 x 6.5, or 20/450.

This is to help you exchange ideas on vision-clearing
with your optometrist, David and others on i-see
who are dedicated to helping you clear your
Snellen with Bate's methods.

Otis

+++++++


I have read Bates book, but seeing that I am less than 1/200 its hard to either see or read full stop.

I have to be about 6 inches from anything before it is clear.

Vobes
Reply
#5
Hey Otis,
I always wanted to know how you do these calculations.
Quote:If you can see clearly at 6 inches, your "prescription"
is probably about -6.5 diopters.

How do you convert the just-blur point of a myopic eye to the refractive state in diopters?

Quote:The typical value of the Snellen for a -6.5 diopters
eye is about 70 x 6.5, or 20/450.

Is 70 always the multiplier in the conversion of diopters to 20/xx VA?  Or does it change with the diopters?

Thanks,
Paul
Reply
#6
Dear Paul,

Subject: Visual acuity standards.  Snellen and
a trial-lens kit.

The correct way to determine a refractive STATE,
is to have the person read the Snellen (at say,
20/70), and then use a minus lens (in 1/4 diopter
increments) until the person can read the 20/20
line through that minus lens.  (That JUST clears
the 20/20 line).

On the AVERAGE it takes about a -1 to -1.25 diopter lens
to clear the 20/20 line for a person at 20/70.

The basic a simple equation to convert a
"clear" distance for a person is this way:

A person who sees 20/70 at 20 feet, can check
and verify that he sees clearly at 1 meter (about
1 yard).  The equation is:

1/ Distance = Focal Power  (Measured in meters).

Thus if you clear distance is 0.5 meters, your
refractive STATE is 1/0.5 = 2 diopters.

6 inches is about 0.15 meters.

So 1/0.15 = -6.6 diopters

The best, and preferred method to determine
your visual acuity is to ALWAYS
look at your own Snellen.

+++++++++


Hey Otis,

I always wanted to know how you do these calculations.

As per the above.

Quote
If you can see clearly at 6 inches, your "prescription"
is probably about -6.5 diopters.

Otis>  You can also use 39.4 / 6 = 6.5 diopters.

(Where distances are in inches.

How do you convert the just-blur point of a myopic eye to the refractive state in diopters?

As per above.

Quote
The typical value of the Snellen for a -6.5 diopters
eye is about 70 x 6.5, or 20/450.

Is 70 always the multiplier in the conversion of diopters to 20/xx VA?

Otis> For a large population of individuals.  It is a good estimate.
The ONLY real way is to simply click on the IVAC Snellen
and confirm it youself.


Thanks,
Paul
Reply
#7
what do you mean by IVAC snellen?
Reply
#8
Dear Otter,

Subject:  IVAC Snellen and its use

Click here:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.smbs.buffalo.edu/oph/ped/IVAC/IVAC.html">http://www.smbs.buffalo.edu/oph/ped/IVAC/IVAC.html</a><!-- m -->

Then click on "Display".

Letters will be displayed for 20/60.

Then step back 20 feet, and find out
how many you can read.

Second-opinion best,

Otis
Reply
#9
can i step back 2 feet and still use it?  My room's not big, and I can just change the settings to stand 2 feet away.
Reply
#10
Dear Otter,

Subject: The limits of the Snellen.

Re:  The PURPOSE of the Snellen -- for DISTANCE VISION ONLY

20/20 means that at 20 feet you can read 3/8 inch letters.

It is not intended that you read it at 2 feet.  That has no
meaning when checking your distant vision.

The compromise is to read at 10 feet.

(The IVAC Snellen has information to adjust for 10 feet)

Your room should be OK for that.  10 feet is the
minimum you can use the Snellen with reasonable
accuracy.

Otis
Reply
#11
My problem is that I have trouble seeing anything beyond six inches!

I can just make out the very fuzzy large C at about 3 to 4 feet - but thats it!!!

Vobes
Reply
#12
Dear Otter,

You stated that with no lens on, your Snellen was 20/80.

How did you make that determination?

You must have read a Snellen at some point.

If necessary you can make the measurement at 8 feet (most
rooms will allow it.)  But the accuracy will be
less.

You can also down-load Snellens from I-SEE, take
them outside and measure.

I think personal verification of Bates clearing is
essential  (Peronal opinion.)

If you clear to DMV normal, and confirm it, then
no one can tell you that Bates "...does not work".

Best,

Otis
Reply
#13
otis Wrote:Dear Otter,

You stated that with no lens on, your Snellen was 20/80.

How did you make that determination?

You must have read a Snellen at some point.

If necessary you can make the measurement at 8 feet (most
rooms will allow it.)  But the accuracy will be
less.

I guess we can put aside "investigator bias" for the moment.

If you are advocating that he attempt to read characters meant to be read at 20 feet, then wouldn't reading them at less than that distance be the same thing as cheating?

This is a material problem with your recommended approach, no?
Reply
#14
well, yes and no,
The computer-based eye chart that he is referring to has an algorithm to calculate the size of the letters based on the distance from the screen.  However, it gets progressively inaccurate at less than 20 ft, and very inaccurate if used less than 10 feet.  The problem comes from the myopia, which means you see almost infinitely clearly up close.  So when using the same algorithm I can measure myself 20/5 (amazing eyesight) if the measurement is taken at 2 feet because I can see almost any size letters at this distance, even though in reality my eyesight is 20/50 (hypothetical situation). 

Nobones, we never mention investigator bias because it's always there.  It's always assumed as it is very difficult to avoid.  When making a relative measurement on the eyesight, I try to reduce the bias by using dots instead of letters.  This is very straightforward because you either see a dot or you don't.  At a certain distance the dots all of the sudden vanish. 

Paul
Reply
#15
I would think that investigator bias could be avoided by asking a disinterested party to put the trial lenses before your eyes--without letting you know what the diopters were--and asking you to read the chart.

I just think it's important that--if people are genuinely looking to improve--not just to be able to tell people that they have--it's good to identify AND control for variables like this.
Reply

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