Check this out!!!

[onamission]

Whats up members of this forum? I want to share with you this article I stumbled upon that is very similar to palming, maybe the same thing I dont know http://www.artoflivingaz.org/meditation.html .What really confuses me is that I have seen alot of people that meditate for example gandhi that wear glasses and they were not cured. Does anyone have an explanation for this?

[cheerio]

Whats up members of this forum? I want to share with you this article I stumbled upon that is very similar to palming, maybe the same thing I dont know http://www.artoflivingaz.org/meditation.html .What really confuses me is that I have seen alot of people that meditate for example gandhi that wear glasses and they were not cured. Does anyone have an explanation for this?

You can meditate but that doesn't mean you will use your eyes properly. Some people who meditate might not be aware of the way they are using their eyes. It's hard to fix errors when you don't even know they exist O0

[onamission]

good point

[apavel]

To see well without glasses, you have to first take them off. Gandhi failed in that regard; plus I don't think he was bothered by his glasses.

[David]

Palming is meditation too, but covering your hands is generally a lot more effective for your eyes than not, and nothing is really very effective for anyone who isn't expecting their vision to improve as a result of it - any change in their vision they will react to as if it's a distortion or something bad, which it very well can be while the vision takes a moment to change and refocus when most of the strain has gone away.

People like Ghandi and the Dalai Lama are also under a lot of social pressure to be a certain way. They may be somewhat at peace inside, more than most people, but recovering from bad eyesight can be tricky and will likely take some conscious awareness of changing the way they use their eyes. I say things like "may" and "likely" because I'm reminded for example of Martin Brofman, who was dying of cancer and opted to change his entire approach to life, and over a short period of time his myopia disappeared as a result of the different way he began treating himself (my interpretation).

So I want to be clear - I do see quieting the mind and being as one with peace as a valid approach and important as far as I am concerned, but there's something to understand as far as what is represented by other people as peacefulness, what is referred to by people as peacefulness, and what is the application of peacefulness in all its facets, including eyesight. Someone who desires peace and freedom as representing the absence of war and slavery is not necessary as one with peacefulness in the way of being that would promote clear eyesight.

Dave

[apavel]

So I want to be clear - I do see quieting the mind and being as one with peace as a valid approach and important as far as I am concerned, but there's something to understand as far as what is represented by other people as peacefulness, what is referred to by people as peacefulness, and what is the application of peacefulness in all its facets, including eyesight. Someone who desires peace and freedom as representing the absence of war and slavery is not necessary as one with peacefulness in the way of being that would promote clear eyesight.

well said

[sassisailor]

I have been meditating for approximately 4 or 5 years. However, I didn't learn about the Bates Method until last month. During my pre-Bates meditation my eyes never improved because I never even knew I could help correct my eyes! So I never took off my glasses or lenses to see if my vision was better, because I didn't expect it to be. Without glasses, I always assumed I couldn't see. Since I've learned of the Bates Method however, I have maintained my meditation and now realize what benefits it has for fulfilling Bates' recommendation of relaxation. Meditation is very relaxing for me. If it were not relaxing for you though- I don't think meditation would help with the vision correction process...

I was meditating last night however and when I finally felt all of my body "release" or "relax" I felt a natural swinging motion begin at the base of my spine and it continued up to my neck until my whole upper body was swaying very slightly from side to side and then from front to back. It was very interesting and it made me wonder why I always hold my body so rigid (and why I had never felt this before!). While meditating I tried an experiment and I held my body still. It felt uncomfortable (that's the only word I could think of) to try and stop this natural swaying motion. I found this interesting as well because Bates condones movement and relaxation. This is the first time in my life that I have felt "natural motion" in my body but it required that I was first relaxed- and meditation was the method for me that resulted in feeling this natural motion.

Check out my vision blog at: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://sassisailor.wordpress.com/">http://sassisailor.wordpress.com/</a><!-- m -->

[sorrisiblue]

Hi Sassi!

What you wrote about your meditation experience was really insightful! Do you meditate with your eyes open or closed? how do you recommend someone starts meditation?

sorrisi

[sassisailor]

Hey Sorrisi!

I meditate with my eyes closed, in the traditional Zen style (Zazen). I do not sit facing a wall however. I have a mat and cushion at home that I sit on, and I recommend meditating in a very low-lit room (bright light can make it uncomfortable to focus, for me anyway). It's best if it's quiet and you haven't just eaten a big meal or completed really strenuous exercise. I have found that first thing in the morning or in the evening is best. It's nice to do right before bed because it helps calm your mind. I sit on the edge of the cushion (you don't want your legs on the cushion) in a variety of positions, depending on my mood. There are many positions you can sit in (full-lotus, half-lotus, Burmese, or Seiza). Usually I sit in the half-lotus position, though I will sit in the Burmese or Seiza position if my ankles are feeling tight. It doesn't matter what position you're in though as long as you can sit quietly for 20-30 minutes. Some people even sit in a comfortable chair, and this is fine. The only thing you shouldn't do is lay down. I have read that this is incorrect because you want to remain alert, albeit relaxed. Lying down will make you sleepy At first if you find it hard to have a calm mind, I would recommend that you count your breath and focus on your breathing. As you advance you'll find that your mind will stay relatively quiet and you can focus on different parts of your body.

If you're interested in reading more about zazen, the best book I've found that describes posture and breathing is:

Zen Training: Methods and Philosophy by Katsuki Sekida

But this would only be necessary if you want to learn specifically about Zen Buddhism and zazen. I think you can meditate with very little knowledge and there is more than enough information on the internet to get you started! Let me know if you have any other questions, I would be happy to help you

[onamission]

In those 5 years of meditation,based on your experience what benefits have you gained from meditation (mental, physically, spiritually)?

[sassisailor]

Onamission,

Good question I've always known my meditation has been beneficial, but I've never had to answer that specific question; to myself, or others.

Mental benefits: I'm not as easily distracted and have an easier time focusing on whatever I'm doing. I don't know if it's the meditation or what I've read about Zen buddhism, but I have come to appreciate the daily things that I must do (cooking, cleaning, laundry, work, etc), and am happier when I do these things. That may sound kind of weird, it's kind of hard to explain. Basically I'm happier, more focused, and when I'm meditating a lot I'm very peaceful.

Physical benefits: I don't know if I would have ever thought to address a physical benefit if you hadn't specified it. But I am definitely a lot less stressed out than I used to be and I personally believe this helps my whole body to be more healthy. I don't really get sick at all anymore (this could be from other changes I've made in my life, eating healthier, sleeping more, etc). Also, now when I exercise it's almost like I meditate when I exercise. When I exercise I try not to think of anything except the muscles I'm using and I try to just enjoy the act of moving my body. As a result I'm probably getting higher quality exercise, which is good for me physically.

Spiritual benefits: The reason I actually started meditating was because when I graduated from college and moved away to my job I began to question my past spiritual beliefs. I had a lot of time to myself as I didn't know anyone and I realized I didn't ever really believe in the faith I was brought up with. I came across some literature on buddhism and it eventually led me to regular meditation. I have since come to a very comfortable place with my spirituality. The meditation aspect of buddhism is of course only part of this spiritual awakening (if you want to call it that), but never before in my life had I felt passionate about my spiritual beliefs, and now I do. I have left out what my previous affiliation was because I don't want to give the impression that I have no respect for that faith, or others that are similar. Regardless if you would agree with buddhist beliefs I think there is a lot to be gained from meditation. Spiritually, meditation alone made me sit down and just be comfortable being my self, by myself, and learning to actually pay attention to how I was feeling (both physically and mentally). I think this could be a great benefit (spiritually or not!) to anyone.

Also- I don't know what category you would classify this, but one of the best benefits I have gained is that I don't care (as much) about what other people think of my choices. I don't live a non-traditional life by any means, but I used to be overly concerned about what other people thought of me. I still have a ways to go before I could really say I don't care at all what people think, but I make more decisions now that are more closely related to what makes me happier. This is probably because for the first time in my life I actually know what makes me happy and before I never even knew!

I realize these meditation posts have come completely away from the Bates method and traditional eye improvement topics, but I personally very strongly believe that meditation is one of the most effective relaxation techniques. Most societies are so hurried and stressful that it could do everyone wonders if we all just "sat" quietly everyday, even for just a few minutes.

[onamission]

wow this is very similar to bates teaching in the act of seeing, it is not at all away from the bates subject.I think you should channel that feeling and mentality in the act of seeing.What you said about your not easily distracted and more focused,and the exercise that you do you are not distracted and focused on just the muscle your using can be compared to centralization. Instead of being diffused (or eccentric fixation) your more focused and everything is more efficient.Now I understand what bates was talking about when he said you could use your eyes without fatique if you use them correctly(centralization,no effort,never stare)your effiency is at its highest because you focus your attention one at a time instead of trying to see everything at one time(centralization of the mind) . What you said about movement and relaxation in your last post aldous huxley said that the act of seeing is dynamic relaxation, that movement goes with relaxation.

[David]

sassi, that sounds a lot like me! I don't really get sick anymore either since I started meditating. I don't even sit down and meditate every day, but there are times every day when I remind myself to clear my mind. It really makes you realize that who you are is not your personality or thoughts or any of that - who you are is like a directed emptiness that doesn't actually need any of those things to exist. And you realize how much of our lives are spent being distracted by recurring thoughts and anxieties that we just keep supporting and creating and handicapping ourselves with and letting it suck us dry to a slow death. So the real trick, of course, is to be in a state of meditation all the time. In a way it's not even appropriate to call it meditation but to just call a lack of meditation "non meditation" or "forgetting yourself" or "self deception", because meditation as we call it is really just a process of being what we actually are. If anything happens, it's not because we're doing anything to improve ourselves, it's just that we're no longer in that moment disparity and deception. So we stop screwing ourselves over, and things like eyesight are no longer used in a screwed up, self-defeating way.

It's amazing how the truth can sound so esoteric and nonsensical and vague. We practically need another language. It shows how screwed up this world really is!

Dave

[onamission]

david, so basically what your saying is all human miserys are brought upon ourselves and we need to learn to recognize how and why were doing this and stop interfering with it so we can return to normal?

[sassisailor]

onamission,

agreed! i have been trying to utilize this concept, but i am having problems because my vision is so blurry without glasses that if an object is more than 10 feet away it's so blurry that i don't know how to practice central fixation... any suggestions? i've been reading T.R. Quackenbush's "Relearning to See" and I just found a place where he suggests working with the Snellen test cards and then some objects to practice central fixation.

But I guess one question is: should i be practicing central fixation ALL DAY, or just for little spurts with things close enough to see well enough to know the difference?