Method of the Month - Long Swing - Dec 2004

[David]

The following discussion took place on the 'batesmethod' Yahoo Group. It is copied here so members of this forum have a chance to read it and even continue the discussion.



From:  "David" <david@i...>
Date:  Wed Dec 8, 2004  9:51 pm
Subject:  method of the week - Dec 8 - long swing


I request that this be the sharing of personal experiences much more
than the promoting of theoretical debate. And please do voice your
own conflicting experience or differing technique that you've used
successfully, and your ideas to match it.

*Questions are welcome!*

If this gets off the ground, I'll set up the scheduling for the
coming weeks! Still open to suggestions on the format.


THE LONG SWING

The swing is the illusion that objects move in the opposite
direction of the movement of your gaze. The swing is *not* the
movement of your body - I've seen it described that way sometimes,
and i feel that it's missing the point.

One way to practice the long swing is by doing the sway. Place your
feet shoulder width apart or so, and sway your whole body to the
left and right easily, like the hanging thing on a grandfather
clock. Let you gaze move left and right along with your body.
Imagine that not only is your gaze moving in that direction, but
also that the objects your gaze passes over are moving in the
opposite direction.

As far as the movement you do, there are other ways to do it. Bates
called any number of things the long swing. I consider anything
longer than the small swing naturally produced by normal shifting to
be the long swing. It paves the way to shorter swings, because as
you imagine the movement of the long swing more easily, you may
gradually shorten the swing. The long swing is an exaggeration of
the sense of movement that can be observed with the short swing.

It can also be done with benefit without gradually shortening it.

I find that the long swing is a relaxing, and I've found it useful
for learning to let go of my eyes (and let go of what i'm seeing)
without closing my eyes.

I generally do it at home when facing the wall with the chart
hanging on it. But I find it helps, just as Bates suggests, to not
sweep my gaze directly over the chart, but under it or above it.
Otherwise it's too tempting to stop at the letters, and the point of
the swing is to learn to see without having to lock onto things. I
also get the best results when alternating it with palming. I get a
lot out of it when I have the memory of a letter of the chart in my
mind as I'm moving. Does this conflict with illusion of movement? I
don't think so, because I'm still aware of the swing and I get
benefit from the whole experience.

I don't do it for any particular number of swings. I find that the
best results come when I do it for around 15 minutes or longer. When
I feel like stopping for no pressing reason, I keep going, and
that's when the best results come.

Sorry for the passing references to other methods, but it's hard to
describe them all as separate.

Dave

-----------------------------------

From:  "Donna Dustin" <dld22mn@y...>
Date:  Thu Dec 9, 2004  9:48 am
Subject:  Re: [Bates] method of the week - Dec 8 - long swing

I like to incorporate the swing into my walks. I find that a long
walk, alone (well, with my dogs, but no people) is a great time to
notice the movement of everything. I will stop and sway sometimes
too, especially at signs. If I walk with someone I do not keep my
concentration on movement and it's not like swinging anymore.

I have also noticed that snow is great therapy. Every time it has
snowed so far this year, and I have gotten out while it is falling
(walking or driving) my vision has improved markedly. All that motion
is just fantastik - I wonder how I could have not noticed it before.
Or maybe I did, falling snow has always put me in a happy mood! And
the forecast in for 5 inches tonight, I'm just waiting for it to start!

Donna

--------------------------------

From:  Gary Noack <gary.noack@n...>
Date:  Thu Dec 9, 2004  11:11 am
Subject:  Re: [Bates] method of the week - Dec 8 - long swing


On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 17:48 +0000, Donna Dustin wrote:
> I have also noticed that snow is great therapy. Every time it has
> snowed so far this year, and I have gotten out while it is falling
> (walking or driving) my vision has improved markedly. All that motion
> is just fantastik - I wonder how I could have not noticed it before.
> Or maybe I did, falling snow has always put me in a happy mood! And
> the forecast in for 5 inches tonight, I'm just waiting for it to start!
>
> Donna

Me too, I'd love someone to explain why watching snow falling is so
relaxing. It seems far too random to be good 'training' material but
even fake snow falling down my computer screen works for me (perhaps
that might be some help to Lena, snowy computer desktops are quite
popular this time of year). Maybe I could incorporate some snowfall
effects in my training video's. I doubt one of my computer vision
systems would make any sense of it, I'll get back to you on that one
tomorrow. Enjoy your snowstorm Donna!

Gaz.

------------------------------------

From:  "Kevin Wooding" <kevin@s...>
Date:  Thu Dec 9, 2004  1:01 pm
Subject:  RE: [Bates] method of the week - Dec 8 - long swing


With all that movement it becomes much easier to not stare. The same results
come if you watch running water, flocks of birds, fireworks....

Kevin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Noack [mailto:gary.noack@n...]
> Sent: 09 December 2004 19:12
> To: <!-- e --><a href="mailto:batesmethod@yahoogroups.com">batesmethod@yahoogroups.com</a><!-- e -->
> Subject: Re: [Bates] method of the week - Dec 8 - long swing
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 17:48 +0000, Donna Dustin wrote:
> > I have also noticed that snow is great therapy. Every time it has
> > snowed so far this year, and I have gotten out while it is falling
> > (walking or driving) my vision has improved markedly. All that motion
> > is just fantastik - I wonder how I could have not noticed it before.
> > Or maybe I did, falling snow has always put me in a happy mood! And
> > the forecast in for 5 inches tonight, I'm just waiting for it to start!
> >
> > Donna
>
> Me too, I'd love someone to explain why watching snow falling is so
> relaxing. It seems far too random to be good 'training' material but
> even fake snow falling down my computer screen works for me (perhaps
> that might be some help to Lena, snowy computer desktops are quite
> popular this time of year). Maybe I could incorporate some snowfall
> effects in my training video's. I doubt one of my computer vision
> systems would make any sense of it, I'll get back to you on that one
> tomorrow. Enjoy your snowstorm Donna!
>
> Gaz.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

From:  John Toon <john_a_toon@y...>
Date:  Thu Dec 9, 2004  3:10 am
Subject:  Re: [Bates] method of the week - Dec 8 - long swing

"I don't do it for any particular number of swings. I
find that the best results come when I do it for
around 15 minutes or longer. When I feel like stopping
for no pressing reason, I keep going, and
that's when the best results come."

Interesting. Perhaps the reason I've yet to make
substantial improvement (though I certainly have made
some) is simply that I don't practice the techniques
long enough.

I've done 100 swings on one occasion, but that took
nowhere near 15 minutes.

I will step up my practice of the long swing this
week. At my current stage I find I am able to do this
far easier than a short swing.

I also noticed that in Bates text he indicated that
when palming, someone might palm for 3-4 minutes, open
their eyes and have a flash lasting only about a
second or so, and then palm again for another 3-4
minutes.

It seems that patience is the name of the game here...

John.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


From:  "jcgre" <johngrellner@h...>
Date:  Fri Dec 10, 2004  8:56 am
Subject:  Re: [Bates] method of the week - Dec 8 - long swing


Recently I did 400 one night. the next day I had my best clear spell
for a long while...

John g


--- In <!-- e --><a href="mailto:batesmethod@yahoogroups.com">batesmethod@yahoogroups.com</a><!-- e -->, John Toon <john_a_toon@y...> wrote:
>
> "I don't do it for any particular number of swings. I
> find that the best results come when I do it for
> around 15 minutes or longer. When I feel like stopping
> for no pressing reason, I keep going, and
> that's when the best results come."
>
> Interesting. Perhaps the reason I've yet to make
> substantial improvement (though I certainly have made
> some) is simply that I don't practice the techniques
> long enough.
>
> I've done 100 swings on one occasion, but that took
> nowhere near 15 minutes.
>
> I will step up my practice of the long swing this
> week. At my current stage I find I am able to do this
> far easier than a short swing.
>
> I also noticed that in Bates text he indicated that
> when palming, someone might palm for 3-4 minutes, open
> their eyes and have a flash lasting only about a
> second or so, and then palm again for another 3-4
> minutes.
>
> It seems that patience is the name of the game here...
>
> John.

[lemielke]

I never thought of falling snow as something which could help, though i've always enjoyed snowfalls and rain and whatever else...**I need incentive - I think outdoors is where I'll find it.
~Louise~

[David]

Yeah, snow sounds like a great way to keep the attention moving around between the flakes. I love snow. None here, but-I'm heading up to go snowboarding in a week or two.

Dave

[kiran]

i had been practising long swings too. during that period i find i can see text clearly as the eyes pass that area.the only thing is i feel nausea if i swing for too long . may be not used to it yet. sorry for the wrong spelling of myopia in my earlier post.thanks.

[Minesweeper]

How many seconds should a long swing take when done 180 degrees per direction?
To clarify, how many seconds from left to right 180 degrees? Then again, how many seconds from right to left 180 degrees?

For myopics such as myself, does it make a difference to do the long swing looking into the distance while outside, or does it work just as well in a small well-lit room where the vision is generally good for myopics?

[David]

I'd say 1.5 seconds either direction is about right. No faster than that. Slower might be alright, but I'm most comfortable as a fast mover in most things I do. Try different speeds. Basically you don't want to be going so slow that you're tensing yourself up as a throttle, but also not so fast that you're tensing yourself up to keep balance. It should be something you can keep up for a while without getting tired.

A small room is alright. And alone is better anyway if you'd feel self-conscious spinning around in public.

Dave

[Minesweeper]

I consider myself fortunate. I have an excellent spot where I can practice the long swing without people noticing.
The other day I came across a piece of land with lots of scenery where no one really ever goes; and tried the long swing there. I varied the duration of the long swing to see what works and doesn't work, and noticed that if I did it slower than 2 seconds (just an approximation) per direction, my eyes would start interlocking as they swept across. I was not sure if the long swing was supposed to be a method to train the eyes to reduce interlocking, because I can do it fluidly in 1.5 seconds or less. I wasn't sure if the long swing was supposed to have increasing duration per direction to train the eyes to sweep fluidly through a process of central fixation that went much further in the distance to the highest acuity possible. There'd be more to sweep across at a very high degree of central fixation. Do you understand the idea I'm getting at?
It's possible I'm not understanding something about the long swing. I'll just ask a couple more questions, and if you do not mind giving me an answer to each, then I'll be able to do it with a better sense of what I'm doing.

1) Which long swing is more recommended: the long swing while looking at an index finger in front of oneself, or without a finger?
2) Should the long swing be done with any recognization of details going around (without 'attempting' to think of them)? I do not mean oppositional movement, which I know is a needed observation, but should one be paying attention in any way detail-wise? Or should one allow his mind to wander while doing the long swing?
3) For people who are not dizzy-prone, such as me (no middle ear fluid), is it possible to do a variation of the long swing simply by spinning indefinitely in one direction at the same speed (1.5 sec or less per 180 degrees)? I've heard that a problem with the long swing was the momentary pausing and stilling as changes in direction were taking place.
4) Why would the very short pausing be a problem with the long swing? If I understand correctly, the infinity swing was created to avoid this complication, but it's been awhile since I've read about this in Quackenbush's Relearning to See.

[David]

Minesweeper,

Right, a slower swing is possible and might be helpful when your vision clears up enough to use it. I like a faster one because it helps me loosen up a little physically too, which is one reason for doing the long swing instead of a shorter one at the same speed.

A finger is fine. I don't know which is better. I like doing it without because I feel more free, but if you hold a finger up and look above the tip of your finger at the background, you can really get a sense of movement. Just make sure not to lock your eyes on that point above your finger.

Yes, looking at details during the swing is fine. I mean if you keep doing that it turns more into a session of shifting practice where the swing is only kind of secondary. Or just glance at the details at either end of the swing instead of the middle, so that it's like a big long shift.

If you don't get dizzy, I can't think of any definite reason why you shouldn't spin around one direction indefinitely, so go for it.

The infinity swing is a good one too. I think Tom Quackenbush once mentioned (if it wasn't someone else) that as you make the infinity motion, you should go up through the middle, not down. I don't know why that is, though. Anyway, try doing the long swing for 20 minutes, then the infinity long swing for 20 minutes, and the same thing the next day in reverse order, and by that you can decide which is better for you. Or better for you for now. Both have their merits.

Dave

[Minesweeper]

Dave,

Tom Q. did mention going upwards through the middle of the infinity swing. It has to do with balancing (exactly what, he didn't quite say). Upward motion through the middle of infinity sign is "uplifting," while downward motion is "depressing." I would think it has to do with balancing positive and negative reinforcers already present in the mind.

I went to that spot today and did the long swing for 20 minutes, the infinity swing for 5 minutes. When I walked back home, I could see things had cleared up slightly, and I walked in the house and looked at the kitchen clock and could read it from a better distance without feeling like my left eye was distorting the image as much as it did previously.

Then I turned around and looked at a framed picture my roommate has of his parents on the mantelpiece in the living room, and could notice that his dad's moustache seemed more visible than it did before. I was standing about 20 feet away.

I've been gauging my progress in this way nearly everyday after palming/sunning for 20 minutes, going for a walk to high ground and staying there for 10 minutes, then walking to that isolated spot and doing the long swing for about 20 minutes before walking home. I notice small incrediments of progress daily since I began doing all this about a week ago.

I'm experimenting with different things, thanks for answering my questions however silly they may have sounded. I have another question about the long swing.

If I'm doing the long swing and I feel a chiming, soothing vibration in my head, does this mean the mind is relaxing? What does that indicate?

[David]

I don't know, but if it isn't the hot, achy, tired or nauseous feeling you get from strain, then it's probably something good.

Dave

[Dick]

When doing long swing, my eyes semms to go to the outer side. Is this feeling the exact one we need? What are the eyes doing when you doing long swing? i.e.what are we doing when the eyes are closed?

[Petal]

Hi,
When doing the long swing, when will it be a good time to stop? If one does not feel tired or feel any pain during swinging, could one continue for 1hour or more longer per session, 2 to 3 times a day? Is there any adverse effects in doing the long swing for this long?


Regards,
Petal

[clarknight]

The long relaxs my eyes,neck and body.
iIread that it can also improve alignment of the spine.
Its good for my stiff muscles, joints in the morning.

[Kazekage]

Hi,
When doing the long swing, when will it be a good time to stop?

Never.

If one does not feel tired or feel any pain during swinging, could one continue for 1hour or more longer per session, 2 to 3 times a day?

Yes. Do it as much as you like.

Is there any adverse effects in doing the long swing for this long?

No.

[aurum-femina]

Little confused. Haha. Am I supposed to move my head as a do it to my left and right , or keep it facing the same direction?